Is it me or has the community gotten worse...

[kartana]

There is more elitism I would say. Or maybe I was just lucky all the years before.

[Saintly]

Snip

I don't really know how to response when you compare a video game to real life, so ill just be sarcastic.

The other day a Marlboro had entered in my yard and almost devoured my pet Coeruleus.
Thankfully an adventurer was passing by, twelve bless him and without a second though attacked and slayed the damn thing.
Unfortunately he was in a hurry and didn't even have the time to ask his name, but at least he accepted 5 Allagan bronze pieces as reward.

Also why would anyone right in his mind give a reason before kicking someone when it'll only get him in trouble/banned?

"We kick you cause you are the only one who keep failing mechanics after 20 wipes." - Reported.
"We kick you cause you have less DPS with SAM that our healers." - Reported.
"We kick you cause you fail to pull even your basic combo." - Reported.
"We kick you cause you go afk every 5 min." - Reported.

And before anyone say you can get reported for the above, you might want to say that to those who claim that they are free to play anyway that they want as long as they pay their sub.
If i have learned anything in this game, is never, ever talk a single word when you are not in a full pre-made party.

And last but not least, sorry but people who join content which they clearly lack the gear/skill to clear and expected to get carried and waste everyone's time, they are not victims.
People who got sick and tired of giving others a free ride though content suddenly became "offensive and toxic".

[kidalutz]

I don't really know how to response when you compare a video game to real life, so ill just be sarcastic.

The other day a Marlboro had entered in my yard and almost devoured my pet Coeruleus.
Thankfully an adventurer was passing by, twelve bless him and without a second though attacked and slayed the damn thing.
Unfortunately he was in a hurry and didn't even have the time to ask his name, but at least he accepted 5 Allagan bronze pieces as reward.

Also why would anyone right in his mind give a reason before kicking someone when it'll only get him in trouble/banned?

"We kick you cause you are the only one who keep failing mechanics after 20 wipes." - Reported.
"We kick you cause you have less DPS with SAM that our healers." - Reported.
"We kick you cause you fail to pull even your basic combo." - Reported.
"We kick you cause you go afk every 5 min." - Reported.

And before anyone say you can get reported for the above, you might want to say that to those who claim that they are free to play anyway that they want as long as they pay their sub.
If i have learned anything in this game, is never, ever talk a single word when you are not in a full pre-made party.

And last but not least, sorry but people who join content which they clearly lack the gear/skill to clear and expected to get carried and waste everyone's time, they are not victims.
People who got sick and tired of giving others a free ride though content suddenly became "offensive and toxic".

Just going to point out of the four scenarios you wrote only the second would get you in trouble
the other three could get reported till the end of time and the subsequent investigation would absolve you of any blame. They do thoroughly investigate the full reports.

[Sathona]

Even Urianger is one of them.

Atleast Urianger is trying to find a way to walk upon the water~
Others just act big and macho -insert saw the line on ERB video

[Connor]

I find it hard to believe that anyone has been actually banned or punished for giving purely neutral advice to another party member. And I find it just as hard to believe that people are going into duty finder and consistently coming across unpleasant or nasty people.

As for the rest should someone really need to justify feeling upset or offended? I’m not sure there’s much to be had in trying to rationalise an irrational emotion. If we’re going to argue that people need ‘legitimate reason’ to be upset, surely we also have to argue that people should have ‘legitimate reason’ to be angry about it? People will feel the way they do regardless of how they think it’s going to be perceived by others, especially online where they aren’t subject to the same rules they would be in the ‘real world’ due to things like enforceability (they can’t survey the chat logs of of the entire game all at the same time to see if someone’s trolling). I think of everyone around me on an MMO as characters rather than representations of the player’s itself and identity, and ultimately I think it’s easy to see why people do the things they do from this perspective. I think this kind of perspective is something that developers naturally through extended play and can be quite implicit. I feel like maybe other players feel this way too, maybe without even realising it. When people are ‘trolling’, they’re doing it as whichever character they’ve taken themselves to being at that time, and not as one human being to another. I know there’s always the idea that people are inherently selfish and mean, but there’s plenty of evidence to the contrary (though that’s a different discussion entirely lol).

Basically what I’m saying is I think when people are ‘mean’ online it’s because they’re starting to develop a disconnect between the human behind the screen and the characters themselves. I’m not trying to justify it, because ultimately you should always be aware that the people around you are - well - people, and they’re going to have their own feelings about your actions regardless of what you think they should feel. No amount of telling people to get thicker skin will stop that, because you can’t just change a person’s entire mindset and perception of things with a single sentence (though wouldn’t that be nice lol).

In terms of reporting I’m not sure the GM’s are so callous as to ban everyone who was ever reported regardless of the circumstances. If you haven’t done anything wrong, I can’t see them just banning people. And if you have done something wrong, I’m sure (I hope at least) that the GM’s would take the time to explain the circumstances that lead to that decision and maybe how to avoid it in future

Disclaimer All statements are made based purely on my own opinions and perceptions of things and as such I do not endorse it as being representative of the community at the large or anyone other than myself. I am not suggesting that any of these statements are inherently ‘true’ beyond my own perception of them.

Additionally is it just me or have the word ‘toxic’ lost all its meaning? I used to think of something powerfully corrosive and dangerous to the wellbeing of those around it. But I’ve seen it so much recently now I just think of that Britney Spears song...

[Deceptus]

Additionally is it just me or have the word ‘toxic’ lost all its meaning? I used to think of something powerfully corrosive and dangerous to the wellbeing of those around it. But I’ve seen it so much recently now I just think of that Britney Spears song...

It's just become an attack on people you disagree with.

[galbsadi]

I find it hard to believe that anyone has been actually banned or punished for giving purely neutral advice to another party member. And I find it just as hard to believe that people are going into duty finder and consistently coming across unpleasant or nasty people.

Same. Maybe we're both just super-incredibly lucky, but I'm more likely to believe that the community at large isn't as toxic as some people claim. In fact, if I had a complaint about the community, it's that too many people seem to be afraid to be social at all. Half the reason I play an MMO is because I like interacting with other players...hell, all of my most memorable times in any MMO involved other players talking, whether it's the RP person (not my forte, but it's still appreciated), the person who pokes fun at the NPCs ("Thrall needs a speed boost" / "Cid, Cid, he's our man! If Cid can't do it, Nero can!"), the person who just talks about the story, etc. (no spoilers right after content comes out please!)...or even just the friendly person who says 'hello' and chats.

As for the rest should someone really need to justify feeling upset or offended? I’m not sure there’s much to be had in trying to rationalise an irrational emotion. If we’re going to argue that people need ‘legitimate reason’ to be upset, surely we also have to argue that people should have ‘legitimate reason’ to be angry about it? People will feel the way they do regardless of how they think it’s going to be perceived by others, especially online where they aren’t subject to the same rules they would be in the ‘real world’ due to things like enforceability (they can’t survey the chat logs of of the entire game all at the same time to see if someone’s trolling).

I think that's why the report system is the way it is. Personally, I have no problems speaking up if somebody isn't contributing, up to and including removal from a group for such (like the AST I removed last night from Praet on the 2nd to last boss because they were literally just standing there for an entire fight, said nothing, and went as far as to let me (the tank) die on the fight prior due to no healing whatsoever (when literally a single Aspected Benefic would've led to no deaths whatsoever).

Basically what I’m saying is I think when people are ‘mean’ online it’s because they’re starting to develop a disconnect between the human behind the screen and the characters themselves. I’m not trying to justify it, because ultimately you should always be aware that the people around you are - well - people, and they’re going to have their own feelings about your actions regardless of what you think they should feel. No amount of telling people to get thicker skin will stop that, because you can’t just change a person’s entire mindset and perception of things with a single sentence (though wouldn’t that be nice lol).

While I do agree with you on this, I'd also note that if somebody is really that upset, they probably should develop some way to cope or "get thicker skin," not because I care or because some other stranger on the Internet cares...but for their own good. If I got offended to the extent that I needed to file a report every time somebody did something remotely offensive in this game...I'm not sure I would've made it out of Limsa Lominsa on my main yet in this game. I probably would've never made it out of Silvermoon City on my former main in WoW. My former main in ESO would probably still be in the starting city as well, and I'd still be on Dromand Kass in SWTOR. At some point there's a level of "yeah, this is wrong, but it's better to just ignore it or kick and move on" (like the AST last night, for example...I'd be fully within my rights to file a formal complaint about them to a GM, but it was easier to just replace them [and give the SCH that came in afterwards a hell of a lottery ticket for MSQ roulette]).

Basically...while certainly people aren't always the most well-behaved, and even rude sometimes...that's not what I would consider toxic and worth worrying about. Toxic would be like a certain FC on Leviathan (not naming names, just identifying what server they're on so if any of their members see this post they'll know I'm referring to them) telling me "member X who just joined but is friends with me doesn't like you, so we're removing you and your wife from the FC" after you'd helped them build where they are. In fact, outside of that very particular group of people (and even within them, two particular people within the leadership of said FC)...I've never seen a truly toxic person in this community whatsoever...and while I was gone during HW...I've otherwise been around since Titan HM was current content.

[Connor]

While I do agree with you on this, I'd also note that if somebody is really that upset, they probably should develop some way to cope or "get thicker skin," not because I care or because some other stranger on the Internet cares...but for their own good. If I got offended to the extent that I needed to file a report every time somebody did something remotely offensive in this game...I'm not sure I would've made it out of Limsa Lominsa on my main yet in this game. I probably would've never made it out of Silvermoon City on my former main in WoW. My former main in ESO would probably still be in the starting city as well, and I'd still be on Dromand Kass in SWTOR. At some point there's a level of "yeah, this is wrong, but it's better to just ignore it or kick and move on" (like the AST last night, for example...I'd be fully within my rights to file a formal complaint about them to a GM, but it was easier to just replace them [and give the SCH that came in afterwards a hell of a lottery ticket for MSQ roulette]).

Basically...while certainly people aren't always the most well-behaved, and even rude sometimes...that's not what I would consider toxic and worth worrying about. Toxic would be like a certain FC on Leviathan (not naming names, just identifying what server they're on so if any of their members see this post they'll know I'm referring to them) telling me "member X who just joined but is friends with me doesn't like you, so we're removing you and your wife from the FC" after you'd helped them build where they are. In fact, outside of that very particular group of people (and even within them, two particular people within the leadership of said FC)...I've never seen a truly toxic person in this community whatsoever...and while I was gone during HW...I've otherwise been around since Titan HM was current content.

Yeah, I do agree that a certain degree of ‘thick skin’ is necessary, especially online. People will inevitably end up feeling one way or another about something, but it’s healthier to try to approach and approach the issue than try to avoid it completely. It’s easier said than done, but think in situations where someone is upset, letting people know that you’re upset and why is ultimately the best way to try and resolve the situation. And naturally, if someone’s in a situation where they let the party know that something they’ve done or said has upset them and the people keep doing it, then there’s probably a cause to report.

[Melichoir]

It's just become an attack on people you disagree with.

Which IMO is part of the problem. When the terminology starts encompassing more and more it becomes a lot less meaningful. See this in real life with other words but I digress.

Within gaming generally, anyone who has had BM at any time for any reason is all of a sudden "Toxic" now. It used to be anyone who had repeated behaviors that were outright volatile, such as throwing a fit mid content, wiping groups purposefully, being vindictive and feeding/causing a loss, spouting off diatribes of racial or sexist crap, etc. Now if someone mocks you, or hurts your feelings, or says to "Git Gud" or anything like that, its 'Toxic' behavior. I think this is a big problem because it causes people to lose perspective. As an example, a valuable one to have is that these forums are concentrated. You will see more frequency on forums of 'toxic' behavior because people who experience it I suspect are more likely to post. This creates a problem because if you experience someone who was mean to you and you go to the forums and find 50 other people who post their own stories, it gives you this 'vision' that the game is full of it. When in reality, those 50 incidents most likely dont even make up .1% of all player interactions.

...but it’s healthier to try to approach and approach the issue than try to avoid it completely. It’s easier said than done, but think in situations where someone is upset, letting people know that you’re upset and why is ultimately the best way to try and resolve the situation....

Yes, this is called conflict resolution. It's something people learn by interacting with others and figuring out how to resolve conflicts. It's sorely lacking IMO now-a-days as people are much more prone to be passive aggressive or sweep something that's bothering them under the rug than address the issue. This isnt the same as deciding for yourself that you wont be bothered by it, but rather this is when you are bothered by something but wont address and instead let it fester.

[Shougun]

Which IMO is part of the problem. When the terminology starts encompassing more and more it becomes a lot less meaningful. See this in real life with other words but I digress.

Within gaming generally, anyone who has had BM at any time for any reason is all of a sudden "Toxic" now. It used to be anyone who had repeated behaviors that were outright volatile, such as throwing a fit mid content, wiping groups purposefully, being vindictive and feeding/causing a loss, spouting off diatribes of racial or sexist crap, etc. Now if someone mocks you, or hurts your feelings, or says to "Git Gud" or anything like that, its 'Toxic' behavior. I think this is a big problem because it causes people to lose perspective. As an example, a valuable one to have is that these forums are concentrated. You will see more frequency on forums of 'toxic' behavior because people who experience it I suspect are more likely to post. This creates a problem because if you experience someone who was mean to you and you go to the forums and find 50 other people who post their own stories, it gives you this 'vision' that the game is full of it. When in reality, those 50 incidents most likely dont even make up .1% of all player interactions.

The word / acronym SJW and Alt Right are so meaningless to me these days lol (I understand there is a general root concept, as with other words like toxic). Similarly the "ist" words tend to be better to just mentally remove when heard because if it really is what they say you'll figure that out yourself but unfortunately it appears that lot of times its just an insult instead with no backing to the meaning it should have had. "I don't like them, the participating audience happens to have X difference that I noticed, therefore I can use Y-ist word"..

Agreed that the way we've set up our social interaction platforms has really exacerbated this confirmation bias. Someone says something you don't like? Down vote them into oblivion- purge them, in many cases you can remove them by doing this (reddit, reporting, etc). Scary yet though are these systems are open to manipulation and are not very transparent (so you can have bots, company bias, and sometimes both, affecting the social space without it being out in the open). Surround yourself by all that you agree with, go out to do 'battle' with other communities that have grown large enough to fight back. Come back to the bubble to share the worst of your enemy, lies okay, reinforce and restore notions, go back out for more 'war'.

We had these problems before the internet of course lol, happening in your social group (like a church or social movement), and it's not like these echo chambers have to be pure evil, many of these groups could be doing good.. Just now with the tools we have.. it's so easy to find and select exactly the people you want to agree with and to remove the people you don't (easier to form very narrow views, and to manipulate them, easier to vilify others, etc).

Part of the reason why I don't like reddit as a social platform to discuss heated things, the whole voting / moderating system raises a lot of red flags to me. That's just a personal thing though (I still enjoy a number of sub-reddits and there are many peaceful and diverse communities), and unfortunately I don't really have a suggestion that's like "this one will work without chaos~!" :3. Thinking different brings some amount of chaos, but if not a bit of chaos then just robots? Queue le shrug and sigh lol.