Will the AST 50-60 quests be re-done now that all cards do the same thing?

[Kaedan]

No, because there's no conflict/problems. The dialogue never mentions specific abilities the cards grants, just a lore backstory on the constellation.

But something tells me you already knew that OP and are just trying to create a backdoor complaint against the new card system so you don't get your thread deleted as a duplicate.

[Sathona]

thats not SEs fault,people used the same 2-3 cards anyway and threw away the rest.
they have more meaning now than before
[a lot will disagree but be my guest]

[TankHunter678]

No, because there's no conflict/problems. The dialogue never mentions specific abilities the cards grants, just a lore backstory on the constellation.

But something tells me you already knew that OP and are just trying to create a backdoor complaint against the new card system so you don't get your thread deleted as a duplicate.

No they actually tell you what they do, and the cards are what you use to grant the constellation effects which is why the cards are named after them to begin with. Bole extends its branches to protect, Ewer nourishes the soul, Spire invigorates the body, Arrow hastens, Spear creates the critical moment that guides the way to victory, and Balance equalizes the difference between the Strong and the Weak.

[gman1311]

No they actually tell you what they do, and the cards are what you use to grant the constellation effects which is why the cards are named after them to begin with. Bole extends its branches to protect, Ewer nourishes the soul, Spire invigorates the body, Arrow hastens, Spear creates the critical moment that guides the way to victory, and Balance equalizes the difference between the Strong and the Weak.

Didn’t the spear do something else before? Like reduce CD time?

[Seraphor]

Didn’t the spear do something else before? Like reduce CD time?

It did, so they changed the card lore before...

[gman1311]

It did, so they changed the card lore before...

Holy shit?! They did!? Damn, so you think the devs will change it? If not,meh.

[JunseiKei]

Now that the cards effectively have no purpose other than direct damage increase(boring), what was the point of the AST story-line level 50-60 where each card had a meaning, a purpose, and *GAsp* an identity? You broke the job, are you really going to break the lore as well, SE?

From what I can recall from the quests, they are vague enough to follow basic martial principals that just lead to better form and, thus, damage. You can consider arrow's "swift and true" to not mean the speed buff it used to give and to just grant decisive strikes. Flavor text.

Moreover, what is the point of creating this thread? To seriously pull resources away from actual content or to simply show how salty some ASTs are over the card changes? Given the gasp and identity comment, I throw my lot in with the latter reason. SMH.

[Iscah]

But yeah, a LOT of the AST storyline needs a rework lore wise from the ground up since the class and lore does not match up at all.

When game play corresponds to lore, immersion intensifies. Breaking that after the fact is worse than if it had never been. It's like a puzzle that was complete has had pieces removed from the middle.

Where is this "lot of the AST storyline" that needs reworking "from the ground up"? Where has it been "broken" by these changes to the card attributes? Don't just wave your hand at the whole thing; if you think there's a problem with it, point out where. What events rely on the now-lost attributes of the cards, as opposed to the still-intact concepts of fortune-telling and drawing on the aether of the stars to cast healing spells?

Besides the descriptions of the constellations, I'd say not much at all.

It has no bearing on Jannequinard's efforts to spread acceptance of Sharlayan astrology, or Leveva being pursued by assassins, or her aspiration to follow in her father's footsteps.

It has no bearing on the overall explanations for how astromancy works, which simply talk about "the cards" being used to tell a man's fortune and grant him strength in battle.

If anything, it improves the story regarding Sevestre, who is so powerful he has the rare and nigh-incomprehensible power to control time... which made it a bit odd that we'd already picked up some time-manipulation spells by that point.

(Also, as far as making changes to the lore... bigger changes have been made with more actual story impact. And yes it was me that started it, but that's why I've got too much of the AST script semi-memorised and also saved for reference, because documenting that timeline mess took several weeks of obsessive focus until I could finally let it go. And I was really expecting the official answer to be "lorebook typo, don't worry about it".)



I have the script saved from patch 4.4, and Garland Tools has the entire current script available to read, so I can check the old and new descriptions of the cards.


Descriptions in 4.4:

Tutorial battle text since removed:

You've drawn the Balance! Let the Warden's judgment grant our lance-wielding escort the strength he needs to slay his foes.
You've drawn the Bole! Beseech the Matron to embrace Quimperain, that he may fend off his opponent's blows.
You've drawn the Arrow! Allow the Navigator to guide our escort's lance true.
You've drawn the Spear! The strength of the Fury will benefit any and all who face insurmountable odds.
You have drawn the Ewer! The Scholar will see that the well of magicks within you never runs dry.
You have drawn the Spire! The Destroyer can bless our good guide's lance, granting it the ability to strike deep, if you but will it.

The Bole:

Look to the skies, Forename, and there you will see six stars aglow in pale yellow. This is the Bole.
This constellation is thought to be the gate to the first heaven─the heaven which holds the World Tree. Planted by the Matron and nurtured by the Keeper, the World Tree is the source from which all life is said to have sprung.
The trunk of the World Tree, or the Bole, offers protection to the weak, defending them from harm.
You have now opened that gate, and its power is yours to command.

The Balance:

The Balance represents the heaven of fire─a realm made prosperous by the blessing of the Traders, but at the same time, one whose equilibrium is maintained by the divine judgment of Azeyma, the Warden.
Azeyma's might will empower those who would take up their blades and mete divine punishment in the name of the sun goddess.
And thus has the Balance burned crimson in your heart, unlocking the gate to the second heaven.

The Spire:

In the third heaven rises an iron tower of spinning gears and taut springs constructed by the Builder Himself. It is assailed without cease by the jealous Rhalgr, but the Destroyer's mighty levinbolts only serve to power the spire's clockwork soul.
It is through the blessings of both creation and destruction that strength is granted to she who sees her stars rise under this sign.
You have now opened the gate, and its power is yours to command.

The Arrow:

The fourth heaven─or the heaven of wind─was created atop a lofty peak by Oschon, the Wanderer, whose footsteps had been guided by the Navigator.
The wind that blows off Llymlaen's seas guides the arrow fast and true, and so shall it deliver the weary souls of those trapped in the mire of confusion, indecision, and over contemplation.
The fourth heaven has opened its gates, allowing you access to its sacred penetralia. From this day forth, its power is yours to interpret and wield.

The Ewer:

It is said through the fifth heaven flows a mighty river carrying the water spilled forth from the Scholar's vessel.
And in that water is the knowledge of all that have come before and all who will follow─the aether spun from Nymeia's loom─the aether from which all magicks are drawn and to which all magicks return.
And now the power of the Ewer is forever yours, and forever shall it point you to truth.

The Spear:

The Spear is the gate to the sixth heaven, where the Fury resides in a palace of ice carved by Her own spear─ice formed of moonbeams collected by the Lover, Menphina.
The Spear fills us not only with the power to overcome our enemies, but also the compassion that is necessary to grant those same enemies mercy.
And now that power is yours, to see directed to those whose fates require it.

And since 5.0 released:

The Bole:

This constellation is thought to be the gate to the first heaven─the heaven which holds the World Tree. Planted by the Matron and nurtured by the Keeper, the World Tree is the source from which all life is said to have sprung.
The trunk of the World Tree, or the Bole, grants strength to the weak, allowing them to stand firm in the face of adversity.

The Balance:

no change

The Spire:

no change

The Arrow:

no change

The Ewer:

It is said through the fifth heaven flows a mighty river carrying the water spilled forth from the Scholar's vessel.
And in that water is the strength of all that have come before and all who will follow─thew spun from Nymeia's loom─thew from which might and mettle is weaved.
And now the power of the Ewer is forever yours, and forever shall it point you to victory.

The Spear:

no change

So there's the extent of the "ruined" lore, besides some altered lines where quests referenced the skill you gained at the end. Four cards unchanged, the Bole minimally, and the Ewer is the only one that's been rewritten to allow for its effect on physical ranged fighters.

The terms were always vague because the characters can't talk about your critical hit or TP regeneration.

I haven't checked over the 50-60 scripts but all the information about the cards was laid out in 30-50.


Additionally, this is Leveva's unchanged description of how the cards work, long before the effects were altered:

Any layman will tell you that the cards can predict a man's future. This is both true and untrue. It is not the future that a card predicts, but the card influencing the man so that a certain future becomes more attainable.
Seeking to tell a man's fortune, you “draw” a card from your deck. Upon “reading” the card, you scry that the man will be victorious in a coming battle. What is it that brings this man his victory but aether tapped from one of the lower six heavens granting the man strength, making it all that much easier for him to overcome his enemy.
Of course, what card is drawn is linked directly to a target's destiny, as well as yours. Are you the one who will see this man to fortune, or will you lead him to downfall? It all depends on your reading.

The new card system also has its own lore-based logic, with the two sets of three elements corresponding to the two "elemental rock-paper-scissors" triangles within the wheel of six. (See Eureka's magia board, or the Elements poster shown during Shadowbringers MSQ. Also on p.9 of the first lorebook.)

No they actually tell you what they do, and the cards are what you use to grant the constellation effects which is why the cards are named after them to begin with. Bole extends its branches to protect, Ewer nourishes the soul, Spire invigorates the body, Arrow hastens, Spear creates the critical moment that guides the way to victory, and Balance equalizes the difference between the Strong and the Weak.

Where are you getting those descriptions from? I've never seen them in canon, and Balance in particular doesn't make sense in regards to its actual lore. It's not "balancing" anything, it represents the Scales of Judgement that are the symbol of Azeyma, the goddess associated with the constellation.

It's not from the lorebook either - that only repeats the descriptions given during the quests. It gives very little focus on the individual cards despite having a double page on the Astrologian job and another page specifically on the Deck of Sixty.

Anyway, the constellations can still have all those unique effects - except now they all empower you and boost your strength in some form, instead of affecting other stats that can't be talked about in lore terms.

Didn’t the spear do something else before? Like reduce CD time?

I wasn't around for Heavensward so can't be sure, but wouldn't that be the speed-boosting Arrow?

[Seraphor]

original card effects: