The Paladin job is the paladin only in name now. Pure salt and sadness.

[Rakshazi]

OP, if you are comparing any job to their ARR varient then you are doing it wrong. ARR was by in large a completely different meta. PLD in ARR had a 3 button combo (boring), and not as much ultility as you might think. Over the many expansions, PLDs identity has only improved, and while I will agree that SB PLD is better the ShB PLD, our identity is very much intact.

The identity that has been added since ARR (and further enhanced in ShB)
- Holy Magic: I hated that ARR PLD was a glorified GLA, I wanted spells, and MP usage, and flash didn't cut it. Now we have Clemency, Holy Spirit, Requiescat, and as of ShB - Holy Circle and Confiteor as well.
- Utility: While yes, some of our defence has been cut, our utility is still there. We have cover, intervention, divine veil and clemency.

As for similarities in playstyle, I'm not sure what other tank has two burst windows one of which turns PLD into a caster job.

-Who told you that PLD isn't a glorified GLA? IT IS. We playing paladins, not the battle mages! It's ok to have blesses, protection and healing magick! Some Smite-like buffs to damage, but not AOE DPS!! It's nonsense! Even based on lore we have in game paladins are ROYAL GUARDS (Guards means that we guard, protecting, not throwing DPS spells around), not Royal Battlemage SWAT.
- Clemency, Passage of Arms and Divine Veil (basicaly everything before ShB) are the only Paladin-like actions we have now and they are OK. Cover is barely EVER used so i'ts basicaly useles.
- Every tank now have DPS windows with gauge filled. EVERY ONE. The thing that it turns PLD in caster is buggs me even more. PLD is not the job that damages, it's the job that protects. And instead of giving stupid DPS spells it's better to give it ally enhancing blesses and buffs or debuffs to an enemy so the party DPS will not fall down.

Defending the party from what?
I hate saying this sort of thing, but if you want tanks that focus on defense you may wanna look elsewhere. This game simply does not have enough damage floating around in order to support that kind of defensive play style. They would basically have to redesign combat, the game over and nerf healers into the ground to even begin to warrant it. Replacing Pally's skills with defensive abilities would just end up with bored healers, longer instances, and alot of angry pally players.

Mate, have you ever played some high-end trial with at least few people haven't died in it because of AOE and player mistakes? Believe me, if there was some PLD action, that could mitigate some damage for everyone in a line of boss - PLD - party it would be apreciated.

[RadicalPesto]

Paladin's only utility button in ARR was Cover, a largely useless skill that only transferred physical damage and was practically only used for cheesing Earthshakers in T13. Paladin is by far the best and most fun it has ever been in ShB.

[RiotSiren]

Mate, have you ever played some high-end trial with at least few people haven't died in it because of AOE and player mistakes? Believe me, if there was some PLD action, that could mitigate some damage for everyone in a line of boss - PLD - party it would be apreciated.

Yes, alot of them. I'm already progging through Titan savage.

Pally has more then enough defense to get through them. On top of that it also has much more utility then the other tanks, which honestly isn't even valued that highly here due to much of it being unnecessary as unavoidable damage is always survivable and avoidable damage is... well avoidable. In situations where people are being bad and getting hit by avoidable things pally can carry groups single handed with things like cover and its heal as both are very powerful tools in this situation.

[Rakshazi]

Such a hate post... Don't take the following to personnally but what you are saying is way to salty to be take in seriously. A mean who are you to say Royal Authority's animation is "pointless", "useless" and "awfull" ?

Also, why they take away all sort of counter attack from the game ? Simply because counter attacks mean to be attacked, be attacked mean to be MT. Or if you put some counter attack to one job, and to to others, then this job will be in top position for be the MT. However, SE decides all their tanks could be equally performing as OT or as MT. So this request is against the will of dev.

On a last note... To say what all tanks are playing the same make e wonder if we play the same game.



If you don't give any offensive tools for PLD, when only few-one will actually play it. It may sound strange but all the game is about putting the "Dead" debuff on mob. And the only way to achieve is by doing enough dommage to reduce it's HP to 0.
More than taking dommage, tank role in ShB is positionning and mitigate boss dommage, is this all what defensive ogcd are made for.
Also, nobody force you to use all dps tools, you could be perfectly tanking by only using fast blade over and over gain.

Clearly you don't read what I'm talking about or refuse to understand it. Ok, I will repeat my points slowly and more accurate (and yes, I AM salty, it's clear from the topic name, duh. When I see like job that I loved so much getting twisted in the way it shouldn't I can't stay silent):
- About Royal Authority animation: who I am? A HEMA fighter and entusiast. There is a lot of actions and animations that buggs me in this game but they are all around "it's fun anyway, so let it be" position. But this particular animation is WAY too unrealistic, stupid and pointless. There is no need to make PLD twirl around in jumping with that attack. It's the WORST.
- If one job is better at something than the other it's OKAY. They are different jobs with different tools. It's clearly understandable, that person with shield is better suited for protection than the person with big 2-handed axe/sword/name it. And, besides, there is always must be 2nd tank in duty to mitigate mistakes and rotate in debuffs. And if that meanning that one of them PREFERABLY the PLD so be it! The people who will want to play tank with more damage output will play WAR anyway! We play something because we like it, not because META. PLD better suited for DEFENSE. More than that - we HAVE the counterattack mechanick on WAR in his Vengeance action. Isn't it strange that we can't have it on PLD??!
- About offensive tools: PLD has enough of them up to lvl70. It's enough. And, if you read my post, you will see that I propose to give PLD debuffing enemy vulnerability actions or the actions to buff ally damage. This way the total party DPS will be the same (or even better) and we will still have a proper paladin-like mechanick instead of battle mage.
- Fast Blade joke is not funny. You can do better.

[Rakshazi]

Paladin's only utility button in ARR was Cover, a largely useless skill that only transferred physical damage and was practically only used for cheesing Earthshakers in T13. Paladin is by far the best and most fun it has ever been in ShB.

Cure, pacification with his counter, Esuna (if i remember correctly), Stone Skin, Protection, blind via Flash action and only after that - Cover. And that's the only one I can remeber. The only utility you say? Think again.

[Wigett]

I enjoy my pally at times. I personally think , not being the best MT but a really really good OT. we offer a lot of support for the MT and have the ability to MT if needed, our damage is not that of the warrior but we have plenty of tools we can use, maybe our rotation is simple, but thats cause we offer alot in support of the party and others. maybe i am looking at my tanking diff. but I can hold my own as a MT but shine as an OT and party support.

[RadicalPesto]

Cure, pacification with his counter, Esuna (if i remember correctly), Stone Skin, Protection, blind via Flash action and only after that - Cover. And that's the only one I can remeber. The only utility you say? Think again.

Esuna was not available to Paladin as a cross-claas skill. Literally all of these other buttons you mention were practically useless (Cure healed for practically nothing due to scaling off Mind) or so extremely niche that they've been completely superceded by PLD's Heavensward and Stormblood utility skills.

[Rakshazi]

Esuna was not available to Paladin as a cross-claas skill. Literally all of these other buttons you mention were practically useless (Cure healed for practically nothing due to scaling off Mind) or so extremely niche that they've been completely superceded by PLD's Heavensward and Stormblood utility skills.

For you and anyone who will write about usefullness and utility of ARR PLD cross-class actions - If you didn't use them correctly it's your problem. I've used Cure all the way untill Clemensy was out. Stone Skin was nice and helpfull too, especialy when playing solo or in small party. You don't use them - it's not my fault you can't find the way to use it.

[Kurando]

Only time Stoneskin was ever helpful was in the PotD and before pulls in alliance raids. Any other time it's somewhat detrimental due to casting means your pally isn't dealing any damage and/or generating aggro. You shouldn't need Cure as your healers should be dealing with that, just like now with Clemency, it really should be a last resort. Plus I'm sure it used to scale on Mind so unless you were melding Mind materia then pretty much waste of a cross role skill.

[RiotSiren]

Cure, pacification with his counter, Esuna (if i remember correctly), Stone Skin, Protection, blind via Flash action and only after that - Cover. And that's the only one I can remeber. The only utility you say? Think again.

• Cure: This became Clemency, which is just a much better version as it cures for more and also heals yourself even when used on someone else and scales off stats you use.

• Pacification: This had no effect on anything that actually mattered, sure it would work on trash mobs but the bulk of their damage is from autos and it basically doesn't work on any bosses 50 or over these days.

• Esuna: they didn't, even if they did that's a healers job.

• Stone Skin: Pallys sort of still have this in the form of their group mitigation, and intervention, sure not usable on themselves but they have plenty of ways to keep themselves up. Again this was usable on all healers and was their job anyways.

• Protection:This had to be cast once at the start of a instance all healers had access to this, I don't see your point with this one.

• Blind: This one had some value in dungeons but outside that it had n use, bosses don't miss anymore. Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing this one baked in somewhere but its not really needed.

Basically everything either has a pally specific version or was not really anything to phone home about. Alot of the stuff you listed are WHM cross class skills. You keep saying Pally is a tank not a DPS, but you seem to want it to do the healers job alot.

I will say I kinda so wished they snuck in blind somewhere but that's not what this thread is about.