Summoner Early Post-Launch Feedback at level 80

[remiff]

I only hope they will slightly buff the summoner potency,
and not only fix 'festeruin''

[Myon88]

I could see them, after fixing our festerruins, not actually changing the final potency of ruin3 (it just does 200 all the time instead of conditionally) or anything else making it more a quality of life change than the actual much needed buff summoner needs. Something like that would leave summoner where it is now right next to red mage and far behind blm, obviously not very desirable.

I could see that happening, which is why if you're dissatisfied with the state of the job it's important to make your voice heard now. So they don't end up 'surprised' that their quality of life fixes in 5.08/5.1 don't actually make people happier. It would be a shame for them to be overly conservative with changes, and for the job to have to wait till 5.2 or something for actual meaningful buffs.

[CrimsonGunner]

are u guys really ok with the summoner kit?

you speak on fixing his debuffs ,ruin II and ruin III potency and stacking ruin IV(which is odd to have 2 different ruins in the first place and ruin IV as a passive stack) but dont u think that the least of the summoner problem?
doesn't his summon kit feel off to you, more like its there as an extra rather then truly be a part of his play-style?

summoning the egi and using enkindle is cool but i feel like there need to be more influence of the egi on the summoner kit and some sort of better interaction rather then just issue a command such as egi assault 1 and egi assault 2 like a pet commander.
Also when i play summoner it feels like it doesn't really matter which egi i summon or if i actually do except for summoning bahamut.
i know that garuda is aoe, ifrit is for single target and titan is something of a defense but it doesn't feel like it truly matter which one to summon and that summon will have an effect on me during battle in general.
dont get me wrong i dont have an issue with the potency since that can always be addressed but more with the kit and how it feels.
i think there should be more meaning to a summoner and egi and in the way they contribute to him ,including bahamut/phoenix that will make u think why u need to summon that specific egi rather then just be there just cause u can.

[dinnertime]

SMN has problems in every piece of its toolkit. The summoning aspect is one of many.
Ever since Demi-Bahamut, Egi's have been more detached to SMN in general, and it's even more detached with Phoenix getting added. It would be ideal if they made both summons blend together nicely, because right now when you use Demi Primals, your Egi-related abilities get locked out. This was more annoying back in SB when Rouse was still a thing.

Personally I'd like to see them be reworked into working like Demi Summons (temporary summons) but for downtime phases when you're waiting for actual Demi's, and rework them in a way where you have to rotate through them so they all get equal use. Both Egi and Demi share the same Enkindle button, Demi's get their own Egi Assaults and lastly Devotion becomes either usable for Demi's or becomes a SMN-applied ability. Although Demi's right now have a movement problem, so I hope that gets resolved first.

[Madoka]

are u guys really ok with the summoner kit?

you speak on fixing his debuffs ,ruin II and ruin III potency and stacking ruin IV(which is odd to have 2 different ruins in the first place and ruin IV as a passive stack) but dont u think that the least of the summoner problem?
doesn't his summon kit feel off to you, more like its there as an extra rather then truly be a part of his play-style?

summoning the egi and using enkindle is cool but i feel like there need to be more influence of the egi on the summoner kit and some sort of better interaction rather then just issue a command such as egi assault 1 and egi assault 2 like a pet commander.
Also when i play summoner it feels like it doesn't really matter which egi i summon or if i actually do except for summoning bahamut.
i know that garuda is aoe, ifrit is for single target and titan is something of a defense but it doesn't feel like it truly matter which one to summon and that summon will have an effect on me during battle in general.
dont get me wrong i dont have an issue with the potency since that can always be addressed but more with the kit and how it feels.
i think there should be more meaning to a summoner and egi and in the way they contribute to him ,including bahamut/phoenix that will make u think why u need to summon that specific egi rather then just be there just cause u can.

Again, this isn't the thread for "SMN doesn't feel like a summoner". We want realistic, achievable change to get back some of the flow the job used to have. Not a complete class change.

[Miminming]

I hope they just add 3 second to our dot like now...

[CrimsonGunner]

Madoka, a class rework can be real if we point to them that, there is stuff there that isnt right,but i dont think that necessary .
inside the kit of the summoner there are bits and parts that can make him work as intended ,they are just detached from one another horribly.
i mean we got a aetherflow stack kit that basically just for ruin fester(with a stupid 2 different ruins and not good ruin IV stacking system) that is detached from summon aspect,
we have egi who are more or less unrelated/unattached to summoner with too much manual control and a trance system that work with demi-summon system but demi isnt part of egi and also has movement issues with bottle neck problem.
ignoring the bugs each part has,the pieces for a good and proper kit are there just not connected and once they will be i believe summoner can truly be a fun class to play for those who love summoning and pets.
in summary,i really believe if we point it out more and tell SE that the kit is still problematic something might change.
i also want realistic,achievable change and i truly believe if we speak more about that the kit and flaws, SE will listen and do something.
we already know from live letter they are going to do something about the busyness of the buttons summoner has so it makes me believe they do care about the players and will try to do something ,either it be better or worse ,for summoners but unless we speak there wont be change .

*Also in my opinion,the ruin system right now is stupid.
i believe we just need 1 ruin that get upgrade and that the spell can be instant or cast time(preferably instant cast ).
as well instead of stacking ruin IV maybe make it permanent in some form like being upgraded normally or like in pvp when using trance or bahamut change ruin III to ruin IV.
Again this is just my personal opinion about ruin and if people like ruin as it is now,i wont mind being a solo voice on that regard .

[Exodus-E]

Madoka, a class rework can be real if we point to them that, there is stuff there that isnt right,but i dont think that necessary.

Absolutely.
Just not while we're in the beginning/middle of an expansion.

Best they can do is change/adjust stuff within the (current) framework they've set up for it.

If you want a complete "class rework", then you gotta wait till the next expansion (just like for every other job).
For reference, see: BRD and MCH.

[CrimsonGunner]

i didn't talk about a complete class rework but i kinda want a change and adjustment with the current stuff we have so they will be more connected to one another.

for example:

*have a stronger connection between summoner and the egi like:
ruin spell will effect egi, such as casting it will make egi trigger his attack like egi assault(like with bahamut which cast his skill when we use spells)
maybe bio and miasma will also improve the egi damage (just like they do with ruin and it potency)
or a different approach on higher levels makes summoning an egi effect the summoner in a way ,such as adding an effect to ruin while summoned or gain a self buff(should be possible if phoenix can cast on skills and effect on summon).

* make egi summon connected with aetherflow to give more meaning to that kit.

*maybe change bahamut: giving him auto attack,his enkindle skill can be used with the egi enkindle ,maybe give him the same treatment as phoenix and make his summon change skills or execute an ability upon summon.

there can be even more things that can done with the stuff we got that i haven't thought about but others have.

my point is that i understand were just at the beginning of the expansion and what i talk about is not a complete rework but adjustment with the tools we already have.
i believe that with the parts of the kit we do have can make summoner a diverse and unique class but it requires more change and adjustments.
and if we speak about it more then SE will listen and adjust the kit we currently have to something that will express the unique caster class that is arcanist/summoner/scholar at 5.1.

[CecMiller]

I agree with the others here in general when they are saying that we are seeking what we consider to be more realistic changes on major patches. Entire reworks are usually done with regards to new expansions and whilst it isn't outside the realm of possibility, it is very unlikely and is why most of us try to improve the tools that we currently have rather than suggest more full fledged reworks. That said, what you're suggesting isn't a full rework and just a retooling of our kit. I personally do want more attachment to our demi summons and egis, but I absolutely do not want further dependancy on dots as it only serves to punish when there are adds that will die fast or in hunts/fates and there is no real complexity to dotting a target.

It's entirely possible to rework aetherflow to have attachment to our Egis but I think Egis in their current form, whilst responsive, still need tuning. Suggestions like ifrit doing a gap closer are great. Further however, people are more familiar with how SMN has worked in the past and how it works now and I think having it tied to Aetherflow would be a bit of a radical change compared to previous changes in patch notes. Though, I may be wrong on this. The other thing to consider is when you add moves to demi summons, you would also have to program in their visuals and what not. Though simply upgrading R2 to R4 in bahamut would require much less work in comparison.

I think its very fair to suggest retooling of our kit but I think its more unlikely/more unrealistic to happen personally speaking but discussing them does not hurt as SE is listening to feedback (I hope)

I agree with you in the grand scheme of things though - summoner should have more meainingful interaction with its pets/demisummons.