Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[CookiesNCreams]

Wait and see until the expansion launches
Wait and see until the 2 star stuff
Wait and see until Ishgard
Wait and see until future Isgard patches
I'm sure they took the feedback, wait and see until next expansion.

Couldn’t have said it any better myself, lol. Exactly. I don’t know whether people say that stuff intentionally to further downplay and ignore crafting, or if they do it because they genuinely believe square Enix will do something about it..?

[Kaurhz]

None of the in-game crafting mechanics lead me to personally believe that Ishgard is going to present any remote form of challenges. Beyond obscene melding, and over-inflated progress/quality thresholds.

[CookiesNCreams]

None of the in-game crafting mechanics lead me to personally believe that Ishgard is going to present any remote form of challenges. Beyond obscene melding, and over-inflated progress/quality thresholds.

Thank you.

[IntrovertAnt]

Thank you.

Tell you what Cookies, and this isn't a joke or me being ironic. You actually already can balance "casual" and "hardcore" crafting and SE doesn't have to do anything. You can make crafting challenging at the same time while other people that want to play "casual" can still do it. All you have to do is limit and restrict certain abilities you find OP for yourself to use.

You want challenging crafting? So be it. See if you can consistently HQ something without using Prudent Touch, Delicate Synthesis, Ingenuity, Waste Not Want Not II or Specialty actions. And if that doesn't do it for you, take away something else you feel is OP.

Give it a shot and you may find that challenge to crafting that you've been looking for.

And if after reading this you think "well I want to be rewarded with loot for more challenging gameplay" then consider that what you're looking for isn't really a challenging crafting.

[Kaurhz]

Tell you what Cookies, and this isn't a joke or me being ironic. You actually already can balance "casual" and "hardcore" crafting and SE doesn't have to do anything. You can make crafting challenging at the same time while other people that want to play "casual" can still do it. All you have to do is limit and restrict certain abilities you find OP for yourself to use.

You want challenging crafting? So be it. See if you can consistently HQ something without using Prudent Touch, Delicate Synthesis, Ingenuity, Waste Not Want Not II or Specialty actions. And if that doesn't do it for you, take away something else you feel is OP.

Give it a shot and you may find that challenge to crafting that you've been looking for.

And if after reading this you think "well I want to be rewarded with loot for more challenging gameplay" then consider that what you're looking for isn't really a challenging crafting.

No.

Sure people want to be challenged, but they want to be challenged on a bar to which there is competition, and recognition for.

[CookiesNCreams]

Tell you what Cookies, and this isn't a joke or me being ironic. You actually already can balance "casual" and "hardcore" crafting and SE doesn't have to do anything. You can make crafting challenging at the same time while other people that want to play "casual" can still do it. All you have to do is limit and restrict certain abilities you find OP for yourself to use.

You want challenging crafting? So be it. See if you can consistently HQ something without using Prudent Touch, Delicate Synthesis, Ingenuity, Waste Not Want Not II or Specialty actions. And if that doesn't do it for you, take away something else you feel is OP.

Give it a shot and you may find that challenge to crafting that you've been looking for.

And if after reading this you think "well I want to be rewarded with loot for more challenging gameplay" then consider that what you're looking for isn't really a challenging crafting.

Top 3 most over used counter arguments to challenging crafting:

1) RNG =/= Challenge
2) If you want it to be challenging, make a challenging rotation!
3) Wait until Ishgard

I’m not going to sit here and explain to you why what you said literally makes no sense. Especially when it comes to someone intentionally inconveniencing themselves, who, is competitive on the end game lvl80 gear market. (such as myself) That’s like saying “You have two legs! If you want life to be challenging, only walk on one!”

Don’t be silly. Please re-read my posts, and I mean that respectfully. I’ve went over this numerous times.

[Miminming]

Errrr tou realize people do limit them self in battle contents right?
solo healing, 7 member party, soloing old trial that stick extremely hard to solo, solo potd etc etc and most of them have no rewards...
the current savage is extremely dumped down thats actually not enough challenge in battle contents as it is...
why crafter blalantly refuse it is confusing me, if they really just want challenge... do they really just want challenge?

[Liam_Harper]

Errrr tou realize people do limit them self in battle contents right?
solo healing, 7 member party, soloing old trial that stick extremely hard to solo, solo potd etc etc and most of them have no rewards...

Solo healing is efficiency on easier fights to allow more dps. It has a purpose. Soloing difficult old trials lets you farm mounts without competition and requires you know your class very well. Solo PotD has a lot of recognition and a title attached.

What Mogbert is saying is more like "take half the abilities off your hotbar and see if you can run dungeons". This isn't challenging, because you're dumbing your class down to less buttons, it's restricting. The interesting part about crafting, like battle classes, is seeing what you can do and how far you can go with your toolkit. Only nothing requires your full toolkit.

[Seraphor]

Gimping yourself in battle content to make it more challenging can't really be used the same way for crafting.
Crafting is procedural, you already know if a rotation is going to work or not, so you either make a rotation that works, or one that doesn't.
Does intentionally failing count as making content challenging?

'Hardcore' crafting ether needs to employ more RNG, which people never like, or more investment. It's that simple.
Make more costly recipes, with higher stat requirements, that require more steps to complete.
Or Recipe's that disqualify certain abilities like Prudent Touch.

Collectibles is probably the best place to work stuff like this into, because of the Collectibility rating.
You could give even greater rewards for even greater ratings. Basically just scale up what Collectibles already have.

[IntrovertAnt]

Top 3 most over used counter arguments to challenging crafting:

1) RNG =/= Challenge
2) If you want it to be challenging, make a challenging rotation!
3) Wait until Ishgard

Have you ever considered that the reason these three solutions keep cropping up towards your arguments is because they are valid points?

I’m not going to sit here and explain to you why what you said literally makes no sense. Especially when it comes to someone intentionally inconveniencing themselves, who, is competitive on the end game lvl80 gear market. (such as myself).

But wait! You would still be competitive because using those OP skills are too easy right? You would still get your HQ stuff made and would be competitive.

Unless you don't think you can do it without those 4 skills I mentioned? (For the record is possible since I have challenged myself to do it).