I feel like there should be a limit on how often an item's price can be changed.

[Callinon]

That or something else to deter the recent prevalence of people using bots to undercut people automatically 24/7, because it's getting seriously frustrating.

There's a DoH/L bot on my server spends his time after each unspoiled node sitting at the retainer bell until the next one spawns, constantly monitoring the prices of all his items and immediately undercutting anyone who has something listed lower then him by one gil.

It makes it virtually impossible to push sales when they're able to perpetually maintain the lowest prices on the MB (Save for the odd instance where they hit their "price floor" they refuse to go below and stop undercutting).

Undercut them and then buy them out when they attempt to undercut you. I'd also be wary of accusing someone of operating a bot if you aren't 100% certain. Just because someone can do something like this efficiently doesn't mean they're botting.

[KageTokage]

Undercut them and then buy them out when they attempt to undercut you. I'd also be wary of accusing someone of operating a bot if you aren't 100% certain. Just because someone can do something like this efficiently doesn't mean they're botting.

There's a difference between simply being dedicated and being active and online literally 24/7. I've regularly witnessed this guy behaving in this manner on a constant loop for 12+ hours straight. Doesn't matter if it's 5 AM in the morning or 5 PM in the afternoon. He's still there doing an endless loop of gathering from unspoiled nodes then adjusting prices.

Buying him out doesn't work either because he immediately relists new items whenever they sell. This type of bot spends most of its time gathering then goes on a crafting binge maybe one or two days a week and creates several copies of every relevant piece of gear.

[Callinon]

There's a difference between simply being dedicated and being active and online literally 24/7. I've regularly witnessed this guy behaving in this manner on a constant loop for 12+ hours straight. Doesn't matter if it's 5 AM in the morning or 5 PM in the afternoon. He's still there doing an endless loop of gathering from unspoiled nodes then adjusting prices.

Buying him out doesn't work either because he immediately relists new items whenever they sell. This type of bot spends most of its time gathering then goes on a crafting binge maybe one or two days a week and creates several copies of every relevant piece of gear.

Sounds like a good source of cheap product to resell, or to process into something else and then sell. If you can always force it to undercut you, then you are in control of the price.

[Canadane]

There's a difference between simply being dedicated and being active and online literally 24/7. I've regularly witnessed this guy behaving in this manner on a constant loop for 12+ hours straight.

So basically you were both doing the same thing for 12+ hours straight.
That's not really evidence. Especially since you would be right there alongside him.

[KageTokage]

So basically you were both doing the same thing for 12+ hours straight.
That's not really evidence. Especially since you would be right there alongside him.

It annoys me how much benefit of the doubt people give others when it comes to bots, because if I suspect someone, I'll investigate thoroughly before I start making conclusions.

This player in question is not just gathering and undercutting constantly, he's always exhibiting the usual janky repetitive movement patterns that are typical of a bot. I didn't spend excessive amounts of time watching him in person (I do, however, monitor suspect players with player search), but every almost single time I've been in Limsa Lominsa Lower Decks for the past week or so over the course of my somewhat excessively long play sessions he'd be sitting by the retainer bell and if he wasn't, he'd show up within about three minutes if I waited there.

While you can find his price floor and sell lower then him for a time, he'll eventually notice and drop it even lower, so you really can't win. There's also the fact that he's only one of multiple bots doing the exact same thing, so even if you can steal his sales away it's not uncommon for one of the others to start picking up his slack because they seem to operate in different time zones.

For all the claims that botting the MB is rampant, I've never seen any good evidence of it. Even when I directly invade the markets of people who are supposedly botting, I find they're really easy to beat and they just happen to be kind of active, making a few undercuts per day, which isn't even as many as I make when I'm really invested in this game and spend the whole day playing or whatever.

What I routinely see evidence of is that many casual MB users are instantly aggravated by any interaction with the MB and have a tendency to exaggerate how much of a problem it is because they're thoroughly upset. The system shouldn't be ruined for their benefit though, if it would even for their benefit. I definitely make items in large batches, so I often have more in my inventory I'm just waiting to post. If undercutting was limited, you'd post your item and I'd simply "undercut" by making a new post. The end result is a minor inconvenience for me and you're shut out of the market because you can't adjust the price of your item.

Craft bots are common, but people who use undercut bots are not. This player is only the second one I've noticed on my server; the other having been a longtime nuisance since the late HW days and whose name has become familiar to pretty much all of the legitimate crafters on the server due to how obnoxious they are. They play it safe by either using alt accounts to farm their mats or just buying it all straight off the MB and are holed up in their house crafting away about 99% of the time.

Some of them also do their selling on alt accounts, possibly to reduce the risk of their entire operation getting shut down if they do ever get caught. The latter one I mentioned has a trio of low leveled alts in their FC stationed in each of the three ARR cities that log on/off in a constant cycle whenever they're actively undercutting people.

[Nixxe]

It annoys me how much benefit of the doubt people give others when it comes to bots, because if I suspect someone, I'll investigate thoroughly before I start making conclusions.

It is my policy to never trust the judgment of randos and certainly not on their mere assurances that they know what they're talking about. People routinely grossly overestimate their competence.

Craft bots are common, but people who use undercut bots are not. This player is only the second one I've noticed on my server; the other having been a longtime nuisance since the late HW days and whose name has become familiar to pretty much all of the legitimate crafters on the server due to how obnoxious they are. They play it safe by either using alt accounts to farm their mats or just buying it all straight off the MB and are holed up in their house crafting away about 99% of the time.

Some of them also do their selling on alt accounts, possibly to reduce the risk of their entire operation getting shut down if they do ever get caught. The latter one I mentioned has a trio of low leveled alts in their FC stationed in each of the three ARR cities that log on/off in a constant cycle whenever they're actively undercutting people.

Sure, bots may be out there, but if the best they can manage is being inferior to me, a player who does not bot, then it's not worth treating it like a crisis and making drastic changes to the game in an effort to prevent it. By your own admission people actually botting the MB per se is rare, so what sense does it make to greatly alter the MB to prevent the rare occurrences? The nature of botting is such that you can basically make any changes you want and it will always be worth it to bot because botting is free progress. Who you end up hurting with draconian game systems are actual players whose time spent at the keyboard is made less effective.

[Nythia]

It annoys me how much benefit of the doubt people give others when it comes to bots...

Keep in mind that bot users will actively defend their way of life when the subject is brought up, just as griefers will go through incredible mental gymnastics to justify why the mechanic they exploit should be left untouched in a game.