Physical Ranged TANK

[Seraph522]

Interesting. Since this is only hypothetical, and no one can be punished for it, would anyone here actually vote kick out such a job? Would anyone here leave group? Its hard to imagine it would be "that bad" to be partnered, since you hardly change up your rotation.

The issue isn't related to rotations, it's related to positioning. As the target of aggro, the tank's job is to make sure the boss and/or adds are positioned correctly during fights - turned away from the rest of the group to avoid cleaves, moved in the right ways to handle certain mechanics (the poison puddles in Brayflox come to mind), keeping the boss still the rest of the time so melee can hit positionals, etc. With this suggestion, you've now made that duty the job of a DPS player who may never have tanked before in their lives and have no idea what they're doing, or a player who does tank but signed up as a DPS specifically because they didn't feel like tanking. Unless the mechanic is made entirely optional (and by that, I mean the DPS can actually mechanically reject the responsibility and not just expecting "no i don't want to" in chat, otherwise it opens the mechanic up to abuse), this would be highly unpleasant to a lot of DPS players, since it would feel like the tank player foisting off their responsibilities on someone else while still benefiting from tank queues and such. And that's not even getting to the fact that you've now got to do your DPS rotation on top of this responsibility, and DPS rotations are generally more complex and involved than tank rotations specifically because tanks have those extra responsibilities to worry about in fights.

And if the mechanic is wholly optional, it now effectively becomes a gimmick rather than an important part of the class, at which point you'd be best just making it a limited job - and we've seen the uproar surrounding the idea of limited jobs, so that wouldn't be terribly well received either.

[MaraD_]

And that's not even getting to the fact that you've now got to do your DPS rotation on top of this responsibility, and DPS rotations are generally more complex and involved than tank rotations specifically because tanks have those extra responsibilities to worry about in fights.

I of course meant the mechanics werent abusable. But with the part quoted above, I feel this is the bigger issue. Boss fights that require repositioning.
As it leads to downtime on DPS.
If slapped on a physical ranged DPS, it wouldnt really hinder DPS. for a melee, they would have to run out of melee range, to move bosses, if the distance is far enough. For caster, the obvious.

It IS more work for them, BUT I feel this is only an issue under 2 circumstances. (1) 4man, where its not a big enough deal, since bosses are easy enough to solo half the time, or at least duo. (2) EX mode primals, where people might get paired with double of these tanks, or an all caster group. EX primals are the range in which content is hard enough you dont want this, but not as hard as savage, where you'd never have let it happen in the 1st place.
So its more akin to what happened in 2.0-4.0 where people wanted NIN BRD so badly, they left spots in PF groups, dedicated for those roles. In a similar fashion, either wanting certain roles to work with the tank, or excluding it. And since yoshida tried to remove that with 5.0, I would see that as a bit of an issue. Personally find it within acceptance, but I would agree, its not good enough on its own to work. So I'd have to rethink it up. (which of course im now coming up with an alternative, which I feel is technically good enough of a fix, but leads to a different discussion I'll save for later.)

Thanks, this helps me fine tune the idea further. (Of course its a waste of time, but I love the challenge.)

[whiskeybravo]

This statement is true, but I'd like to clarify first, this only applies to OTHER groups of people wanting to bring the job along. In an EX party, would groups forbid such a job to come? I think its possible, but some are desperate for tanks.
As for the second part, the job can sell itself to those who want to play it, regardless of this buff.
So I think its good to clarify you mean those who would want, or not want, to invite it to parties. Not those who would or wouldnt want to play it.

Technically you could have that very thing by BEING this job. Of course, you cant play as it forever, and sometimes you're trying to level up other stuff.

EDIT: I think if the group hasnt actually fought any mobs yet, its easily provable the job was kicked for being said job.
Unlike other scenarios where you need to see text talking about it.
So not only is it reportable, it would be bannable.
(The answer would be to pull mobs until times up, then kick. To which, I think most players would just keep going if there's no issues with the 1st bit of the dungeon being already over. but I could be wrong)

It's just not really a good design, it's interesting, but not good. You expect when a tank shows up that they'll be tanking, not abdicating that role to someone else in the party. Yes, you may really really really be excited to play this style, but it's a group game so you need 3 or 7 other people who also want to play that style. And if they don't want to then you really can't compel them to. Reporting for vote kick abuse or not. Worst case they just drop.

[MaraD_]

you may really really really be excited to play this style

Technically I dont want to play it funny enough.
I just find it interesting. I'd rather be the actual person taking the hits.
But I love trying to think up new ways to do tanking/healing mechanics. (And im never really interested in new ways to DPS, despite how little variation there is of that, even if its more than variation of tanking/healing.)
EDIT: Id rather be the target of such a tank, but since I have little to no mitigation options on most jobs, it wouldnt feel enough different from being a DPS in solo play.

[Rufalus]

Interesting idea and I'd certainly like some diversity because we've got 4 tanks with slashing type weapons and 1-2-3 combos, but yeah as others pointed out a cover tank would create situations where other players do not want to assume the tank role. They want to play the style they signed up for.

I think the next tank (if there is one) should probably be the last tank this game gets, and the most unique they could go would be DoM tank casting psychic barriers around self but still fighting at melee range. If it has to be DoW style then please no more slashing weapons lol, anything different. Blunt pulverising club or mace might be ok or some kind gun-greatshield, a two-handed large shield that can boom.

[Jonnycbad]

Won't work because certain mechanics target certain roles, and if you can change/alter roles by selecting who you want the tank to be, it's going to get very weird.

[Jmedno5891]

A ranged tank who could use pets the way beastmaster in ff11 did would be interesting. Have all commands go off on the pet and if it dies it goes right after the user who is squishy as any other ranged.

[ExLegen]

Ranged tank never going to happen in ff14. Why would they spend resources into a "ranged Tank"? there arent many people interested in this, and wouldnt really work without a pet (and wouldnt be a ranged tank anymore), and even then... why??? Its not practical, doenst make sense whatsoever... you want to kit the boss around to "keep the range" and turn the battlefield into a chaotic mess?

no thank you, i rather they spend resources to make the game and the current classes better.

ranged tank...... that maybe (and thats a far one) work on an action game like Tera with a lot of work.

[MaraD_]

Ranged tank never going to happen in ff14. Why would they spend resources into a "ranged Tank"? there arent many people interested in this, and wouldnt really work without a pet (and wouldnt be a ranged tank anymore), and even then... why??? Its not practical, doenst make sense whatsoever... you want to kit the boss around to "keep the range" and turn the battlefield into a chaotic mess?

All of this has been addressed.
Pets taking the damage is the most effective way to do it normally. But FFXIV is a game where pet interaction is absolutely horrible. So the "pet" is now another person, who can interact with bosses effectively.
Also, you're definition of what constitutes a tank is technically incorrect.
as explained here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5130239

people want variation in the roles.
some people loved playing chainmail, mace wielding clerics, and want to heal as something they view as tough and "bad @$$", but we continue to get more wand waving dress healers.
while i may be fine with it, i understand some people would like to be the actual fantasy role they envisioned.
for some people a physical ranged tank would be one. (Im not a fan of it, im more interested in a caster tank, and the elusive melee healer you occasionally see in select few MMOs)
but im aware of people existing who want things outside of the normal. im also aware of those who would love the quick queue of a tank, but to "feel" more like a DPS (and some arguing a support DPS, which this is the DNC of tanks essentially)

plus, we're never going to get another tank. realistically speaking, we'll get a 4th healer, and then SE will wind down with 1 DPS job every so often until the next MMO, and this becomes the back burner MMO that FFXI has become.

[Hezzlocks]

I have to say, if this class concept was ever introduced, it would be a great pleasure to make the healer the tank. Let's see if they decide to DPS all the way down to 5% when its their ass on the line