MMORPGs How they have changed for the better? or worse?

[D_C]

It's hard to balance specializations when people use spreadsheet math and simulators to figure out the best combination for most scenarios. Then, players flock to those "build" and anyone not using -that- is seen as gimp/weak/useless. It becomes an illusion of choice. These kinds of things work well in offline games, but when playing with other people, players prefer metas rather than what's -fun-.

I hate this excuse. Just fer example, XIV ain’t got any specialization at all, outside o’ choosin’ yer class, an’ people will still tell ya if ya picked a wrong one. If everyone was the same, an’ someone made a spreadsheet showin’ red hair gets ya 1 more DPS because it loads faster, blue haired people would eat shite. Ya said it yerself, that’s how people are in MMOs.

Stat points in XIV definitely qualified as an illusion. That was dumb, ain’t gonna defend it. But that don’t mean choices are bad, it means THOSE choices were bad. They coulda made the choice meanin’ful, but nope, trashed. Same thin’ happened ta cross class skills. An’ role actions. XIV’s got a problem o’ havin’ the thumbscrews on so tight in class an’ encounter design that there really ain’t room fer flexibility.

I’d say a lacka choice’s a big negative in MMOs, but it be a symptom of a larger problem. Parta old ones was creatin’ yer character an throwin’ ‘em out inta a world ta explore wit’ others. Now ya kinda just walk down the path devs created fer ya, an’ playin’ with others is a side thing that kinda happens sometimes. I can understand the appeal, I mean hell I’m playin’ this, but I miss real adventure.

[Nedkel]

I am glad you have decided for everyone what an MMORPG needs to be. Perhaps these 'depressed, broken people' you spoke of sought an escape. Perhaps their circumstances made it so that they couldn't go out into the real world(physical disability) or did not wish to(social issues). Or perhaps it was simply more stimulating them to play complex games that engaged their brain. Now, a place where those players could feel like they had a home has been taken away. Now, all that exists are casual MMOs really. People have made RL friends and even significant others from these second homes that you criticize. I guess what I'm trying to say is, who are you to decide how others should spend their time?

And yet you are here posting, at the forum of a ultra casual friendly game, this is pretty ironic.
Old mmorpgs, i do not miss them even a bit, they were punishing and stressful, and sorry to break your world but it was not good for young minds at all, the mmorpg i played in my young years were causing a ton of stress and kids were fighting in real life because of that game. There were several cases in my country of kids attacking their own parents because they interupted them in playing one of the "old style" mmorpg.
It was bad, often pay2win and was forcing youths to hardcore playing to keep competitve, often playing and ignoring school, not passing from class to class because of the game.
I was raised in those times, i experienced bad sides of online gaming, it made its terrible damage to our society, and you cannot denny this fact.
They were new, addicting and was hard to distiguish real life from online game for kids who played them, i knew in first person a boy who tried commit suicide because he has been hacked in Tibia.
These old games were like drugs given away for free, terribly designed and made to lure in you to spend all your time in them.

[MonteCristo]

Opinions dont matter to devs so these convos are pointless...the almighty dollar controls the game...whoever holds the dollar dictates the game and anyone who disagrees with those people end up crucified or cast to the side.

[Barraind]

It was bad, often pay2win and was forcing youths to hardcore playing to keep competitve

Uhhhh... pay to win wasnt a thing in the first generation of MMO's, and was first introduced to the MMO scene by the second generation of Asian MMO's. That concept wasnt mainstream in western MMO's until the third generation. You had to be specifically seeking out the grindy korean games to see the hint of a cash shop.

[Edax]

Using Old School Runescape as measuring stick, one thing that does annoying me about modern MMORPGs is the stat bloat. In Runescape, your HP only went up to 100 at max level. Maybe you could take a potion and increase a stat beyond 100 but for the most part you could feel the difference between +1 or +2 of a stat. Taking a potion for a +10 bonus was huge.

In modern MMORPGs, the expansions introduce such stat bloat that you could have 100k+ HP, gear that offers stat bonuses in the thousands and yet you never seem to feel their impact unless your using some 3rd party software to run the numbers. I remember the original KOTOR (just an old school rpg) where just getting +5 to strength meant a huge difference. You could utterly destroy mobs in a single turn if you got your strength high enough. In the modern era, I can add +200 to direct hit via materia and not notice any real change. As for the HP bar, the number is so inconsequential, it might as well be a percentage bar.

It's gotten to the point that I use item lvl to judge gear and not the stats.

[Zabuza]

And yet you are here posting, at the forum of a ultra casual friendly game, this is pretty ironic.
Old mmorpgs, i do not miss them even a bit, they were punishing and stressful, and sorry to break your world but it was not good for young minds at all, the mmorpg i played in my young years were causing a ton of stress and kids were fighting in real life because of that game. There were several cases in my country of kids attacking their own parents because they interupted them in playing one of the "old style" mmorpg.
It was bad, often pay2win and was forcing youths to hardcore playing to keep competitve, often playing and ignoring school, not passing from class to class because of the game.
I was raised in those times, i experienced bad sides of online gaming, it made its terrible damage to our society, and you cannot denny this fact.
They were new, addicting and was hard to distiguish real life from online game for kids who played them, i knew in first person a boy who tried commit suicide because he has been hacked in Tibia.
These old games were like drugs given away for free, terribly designed and made to lure in you to spend all your time in them.

Yeah, I'm only here because of Savage and perhaps Ultimate when it drops. Those who have seen me in the 'Lack of End Game Content' thread know this. I don't do casual stuff on here. I am greatly saddened by what this genre has become to be honest.

As to your other point, it is not the fault of the games if young people people throw their lives away for a game. That would fall on the parents for lack of proper parenting, and also the young people themselves for lack of self-control and knowing when to stop. Such people need to refrain from blaming something else for a choice they made. Yet you think by taking away all choices and leaving only the type of game you deem acceptable, that solves all problems. People need to take responsibility for their actions.

[Nixxe]

I don't think this game has actually changed all that much. It has definitely followed the general trend of casualfication, but the game started out pretty casual. The biggest issue is the content seems to be spread a bit thinner and a lot less inspired.

Other games, such as WoW, basically abandoned a philosophy of an immersive world to explore and conquer in favor of becoming an instance-centric quasi-e-sport that lives for the now and no longer rewards long-term time investment.

[Xatsh]

Have they changed for the better depends on who you ask honestly. Even defintions have changed today. Casual = anyone playing less then 25hrs a week. Hardcore = playing more then 40hrs a week. Midcore is the middle ground. That was what it was back in the day. Today hardcore = people who can clear the hardest content and who want to be the best. That back in the day was not hardcore that was just a good player.



Today's Themepark mmos have shifted the mmo genre away from what made mmos... well mmos and into something brand new. The games are now something everyone can get into and enjoy. From the ultra casual weekend 4hr only gamer up to the hardcore raider. The games are more on rails, there are limited things to accomplish before you hit a peak, and it feels alot closer to a massive offline rpg with a multi-player element to it that is constantly updated then an ever growing world, content is replaced constantly, the games are ultra simplified (Compare EQ/FFXI's stats, gear, and dmg calculation to ffxiv's for example), 95% of development is designed for the casual gamer.



Is the new MMO better... I would say no personally. You lost the endless game. The virtual world feel. Guilds are worthless now every one of them are forced to just be a casual social guild, no longer is guild management and structure actually important to progression. Crafting is subpar to endgame. The economies are utter trash, gold/gil have no real value outside vanity gear/weapons/housing. MMOS are shifting more towards solo player or low man (Anything below 6). You are expected to play multiple games now instead of making 1 your home. The MEMEMEME and Screw that it does not benefit me mentality is now rampant that use to not be the case at endgame, well it existed but those players would be kicked from all the endgame guilds and forced to quit the game after a time. All of that is gone now and what made mmos special died with it. Closest game I played in recent years that captured some of it was Archeage to be honest, but that game was killed by massive p2w and the most toxic environment on the internet.


FFXIV is a really really great game, but is it a great mmo to me when comparing to what I would want my dream mmo to be. No, it is not.

[Nims]

IMO, they've changed for the worse.

Everything is about rushing to end game, it used to be about the journey and there used to be mid level content as well.

You had to actually think, things were harder, the community and talking to people actually mattered.

And the greatest feeling in the world is still grinding for a rare drop from a mob or boss and getting it.

[AlphaFox]

That was one aspect I kinda like about FFXI is that the open world was dangerous. Simply just fighting the first few mobs could be deadly without at least 1 partner and even then if it turned out the enemy was stronger you may just scrape by. Granted I can see why it was forced to change as the game ages and newer people will have no options to partner as they trickle in or older members are busy. Plus it shows its a really a niche market now when games that were punishing are shut down like Shin Megami Imagine or Wizardry Online while more casual friendly seem to grow.

Don't get me wrong I still find my ways to play original FFXI and SMT:Imagine cus I enjoy the harder aspects and would love to see a MMO come out that didn't care, but that is not profitable I would imagine.