Ninja is weak, like very weak.

[TaiyouSeishin]

75th Percentile:

E1S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=65&class=Any
E2S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=66&class=Any
E3S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=67&class=Any
E4S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=68&class=Any

At E3S NIN somehow climbs over all the ranged except BLM perhaps due to lack of positionals. At E4S the numbers are so close that NIN is more or less interchangeable with any of the non-BLM ranged.

Well thats cool. Honestly at least we are passable somewhere. But being higher than ranged isnt something to write home about.

(Levi is indeed omni-directional target circle)

But a ninja isnt going to be taken in a slot that someone would want ranged... like a mechanic that youd prefer a ranged for (like pools, etc) Also a ninjas rdps is only as high as the dps he runs with. If you were to say, take the 3 melee and the blm out, and pick up the next 4 dps to take, ninja would NOT be over machinist then. Ninja would be falling even lower.

The issue isnt that we are "behind everyone" its that in our chosen role as melee dps, we are a hinderance, as opposed to a benefit.

Being higher than machinist? Thats cool (honestly at least nin are not dead last) but thats a consolation, not a showing that its "even" nin's personal dps, nullifys its own utility, which is the actual issue.

[Katie_Kitty]

75th Percentile:

E1S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=65&class=Any
E2S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=66&class=Any
E3S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=67&class=Any
E4S: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=68&class=Any

At E3S NIN somehow climbs over all the ranged except BLM perhaps due to lack of positionals. At E4S the numbers are so close that NIN is more or less interchangeable with any of the non-BLM ranged.

Based on what I see here, if any job needs help, it is RDM more than NIN. NIN will always be wanted for trick attack just like people will always want dancer for its damage buffs. But RDM is consistently worst or second worst DPS and its best raid buff is.. Embolden. Something that buffs only physical damage for the party and with a buff that actually gets worse every few seconds. Why bring a red mage when summoner fills the same niche but with more damage?

[van_arn]

I'm pretty cool with this perception of ninja. They had a stranglehold on group compositions for years, so them no longer being seen as essential is a sign of balance -- not malice against the job.

[Lastelli]

I'm pretty cool with this perception of ninja. They had a stranglehold on group compositions for years, so them no longer being seen as essential is a sign of balance -- not malice against the job.

This idea that since a job was meta in the past then it's ok to severely undertune it now really bothers me to be honest.
Because right now NIN is indeed undertuned relative to its fellow melee dps...by a significant margin. And by the way my party cleared e4s with a NIN so it IS perfectly viable, but this doesn't male it any less unbalanced.

[Kaedan]

This idea that since a job was meta in the past then it's ok to severely undertune it now really bothers me to be honest.
Because right now NIN is indeed undertuned relative to its fellow melee dps...by a significant margin. And by the way my party cleared e4s with a NIN so it IS perfectly viable, but this doesn't male it any less unbalanced.

There's only a 500 dps difference between NIN and SAM. I'd say it's fine where it is. The goal of the rebalancing in 5.0 was to eliminate the need for a NIN, DRG and BRD in every party. And so now NIN is squarely in the middle of rDPS, which there's nothing wrong with.

[van_arn]

This idea that since a job was meta in the past then it's ok to severely undertune it now really bothers me to be honest.
Because right now NIN is indeed undertuned relative to its fellow melee dps...by a significant margin. And by the way my party cleared e4s with a NIN so it IS perfectly viable, but this doesn't male it any less unbalanced.

Note I say perception.

[Lastelli]

Wrong. Jobs should be balanced within their role now that we have the passive party bonus for diversified composition that more or less ensures that all roles are equally desirable. Right now NIN is the lowest melee by a wide margin in terms of rdps, we're talking about 800+ difference when compared to MNK and DRG, despite bringing the additional bother of requiring perfect play and rotational accuracy by all party members to fully exploit the trick attack. I'm not saying NIN should be required in speedrun comps, but right now it simply is...week. End of the story.

[Gwenorai]

Wouldn't really work. Dancer only has two Steps and each has a defined end point. Ninja's mudras have an array of combinations. How would a pop-up gauge even work for that?

DNC has four steps; it only has two actual 'finishes' Standard step only needs two steps, while technical needs four inputted in which are from what I remember, random. I imagined it would literally just be the same thing. Random.
Press the ability you wish to perform. This changes all of the Ninjutsu 'buttons' into mudras - like DNCs offence moves become dance steps. Follow the correct mudra sequence on the gauge. Press the finaliser, 'Ninjutsu' button.
Meh, that's what I imagined in my head. Would probably flow like crap anyway.

[TaiyouSeishin]

Based on what I see here, if any job needs help, it is RDM more than NIN. NIN will always be wanted for trick attack just like people will always want dancer for its damage buffs. But RDM is consistently worst or second worst DPS and its best raid buff is.. Embolden. Something that buffs only physical damage for the party and with a buff that actually gets worse every few seconds. Why bring a red mage when summoner fills the same niche but with more damage?

Rdm needs a buff. But you are incorrect about ninja still wanted because of trick. You are taking its utility at face value. The highest value trick has been given has been around 1000. Pdps of ninja is 2k behind the next melee. This means ninjas pdps nullifys trick attack. Also means a "speedrun" loses total raid dps just by bringing them.


If a utility still nets in a dps loss, the utility may as well not exist. Remove it, or give ninja a proper excuse for its dps contribution being as low as it is.

Ppl are trashing nin because it was meta so long. They say "its where it should be now," or "its just not meta now its fine" when in actuality its not even VIABLE. Meta has nothing to do with a majority of the player base, its just what people echo from the "top percentile" "this is best so we should have it"

There will never be a balance. Something will always be meta, just not nin this time, as it cant even perform its main function.

[Lunavi]

Someone as to be on the bottom, and to be fair, after Ninja have dominated as a locked slot almost since their launch, I am 100% fine with Ninja being on the bottom half of the DPS hierarchy for one expansion.

They aren't even that far behind the top to be 100% honest in terms of rDPS. People are making a hen of a feather here. I can, however, agree that Ninja is, and tbh always were, in a bothersome situation for dungeons, but any class could without a single issue piloted by a below average player could get through dungeons, so I can have oversight with poor dungeon balancing, and NIN will be doomed to be bad in dungeons until something is done about Trick attack as if they are good in dungeons they will be OP in raids.