Make Blue Mage a dps focused HEALER job.

[Razard]

stop trying to make blu happen, it's not going to happen

This. All of this.

Have you been to the class forums lately? there's 3-5 threads in each whinging about "Job Identity", whatever the hell that means. It's a race to the bottom to see who can scream their bad idea the loudest to make their pet class "more in line with traditional FF (INSERT Class here)", even if it wont work within the games framework.

This is why they where nervous about Blue Mage. It just doesn't work within ffxiv's battle system, Where everyone is specialized into one of three roles, with very little overlap. And would you look at that, they where right to be nervous.

Blue has all the job identity you could ever want

[ReiMakoto]

This. All of this.

Have you been to the class forums lately? there's 3-5 threads in each whinging about "Job Identity", whatever the hell that means. It's a race to the bottom to see who can scream their bad idea the loudest to make their pet class "more in line with traditional FF (INSERT Class here)", even if it wont work within the games framework.

This is why they where nervous about Blue Mage. It just doesn't work within ffxiv's battle system, Where everyone is specialized into one of three roles, with very little overlap. And would you look at that, they where right to be nervous.

Blue has all the job identity you could ever want

You need to be a real Job to have a Job identity. Real talk though, its been discussed so many times that FFXIV doesnt match Blues Job identity its unreal, so it doesnt bear repeating all of it. But a nice Sum up is BLU is historically used to support and compliment a party, something ffxivs cannot do

[Razard]

You need to be a real Job to have a Job identity. Real talk though, its been discussed so many times that FFXIV doesnt match Blues Job identity its unreal, so it doesnt bear repeating all of it. But a nice Sum up is BLU is historically used to support and compliment a party, something ffxivs cannot do

Looks like points where missed young squire. Do keep up.

The point is the same people advocating for Blue to be a "real job" are the same people who would have complained if it was a "real job". How many times have people said on this forum alone that "(Insert Class) doesn't feeeeeeeeeeeeeel like (insert class mentioned previously)"? And all the arguments I have heard from the "real jobbers" don't seem to answer the fundemental question.

How do you keep the essence of the Blue Mage while keeping it within the framework of the Holy Trinity? Because let me tell you as a Summoner player it's frustrating to see every single thread about my class being a countdown to the "Muh not real Summoner" post and subsequent 20 car pile up that ensues.

[ReiMakoto]

Looks like points where missed young squire. Do keep up.

The point is the same people advocating for Blue to be a "real job" are the same people who would have complained if it was a "real job". How many times have people said on this forum alone that "(Insert Class) doesn't feeeeeeeeeeeeeel like (insert class mentioned previously)"? And all the arguments I have heard from the "real jobbers" don't seem to answer the fundemental question.

How do you keep the essence of the Blue Mage while keeping it within the framework of the Holy Trinity? Because let me tell you as a Summoner player it's frustrating to see every single thread about my class being a countdown to the "Muh not real Summoner" post and subsequent 20 car pile up that ensues.

Thats a very broad generalisation, Im a person who advocates for an unlimited Blue and i couldnt give a rats ass if they squeezed it into the formula.

You keep the essence of BLU by being a party focus'd support dps that uses monster abilities, wether these are learned through job quests or overworld is irrelevant. It didnt need to be a tank, it didnt need to be a healer. BLU has the most flexible identity of any role in the final fantasy franchise, making it fit is not some slight to the class identity, in one game you ate monsters and had percentage based skills mostly, in one you get hit, in one your BLU magic was mostly physical and cast using cats. Very flexible identity.

Also not sure what you mean by "Looks like points *where* missed squire", I intentially left out points to avoid writing an essay like i have in other threads

[MaraD_]

Looks like points where missed young squire. Do keep up.

The point is the same people advocating for Blue to be a "real job" are the same people who would have complained if it was a "real job". How many times have people said on this forum alone that "(Insert Class) doesn't feeeeeeeeeeeeeel like (insert class mentioned previously)"? And all the arguments I have heard from the "real jobbers" don't seem to answer the fundemental question.

How do you keep the essence of the Blue Mage while keeping it within the framework of the Holy Trinity? Because let me tell you as a Summoner player it's frustrating to see every single thread about my class being a countdown to the "Muh not real Summoner" post and subsequent 20 car pile up that ensues.

(1) The "job identity" is usually possible, with rare cases its not. (only because of balance issues. No other reason should be preventing it.)
Just because they didnt do it, doesnt mean it wasnt possible.

(2) They didnt even get BLU job identity right either. Some weird mix of BLUs, based mostly on FFXI, then FFV, then FFVI. The most common trait out of what wasnt added, was being able to rely on their weapon when they dont have spells. In the case of FF14, weapons basic "Attack" option is replaced by Weapon Skills, and auto attacks. (Which BLU didnt get.) Only in FFVI did they not. (Which is why i mentioned it)

(3) They also dont need a 1:1 comparison to the older jobs, just get the generalized "feel" of the job, given the game its on.
If they make an action RPG, and put BLU into it, making it fit the action RPG mechanics, does that suddenly mean its not a real BLU? Only if it doesnt actually encompass the point of being a BLU.

Lastly (4) The people who are "mad they didnt fit its identity" dont exist yet, nor do you know if they would have, due to a lack of making a BLU either fit, or not fit, its identity. When the devs make a current job fit its identity, or semi close, most people dont complain, EXCEPT those who think only a certain game within the series represents what the jobs identity should be. Those people are in the minority. They may be a vocal minority, but still a minority. (Example: "RDM should be primarily a debuffer, with some good buffs like it was in FFXI!") A job that comes close would be PLD, and clemency in place of cures. Most people stopped complaining about PLDs lack of identity, and started only complaining PLDs self sustain is tied to the GCD w/o DPS attachment. (aka, make it oGCD) There are a few people who say it should have "Cure" instead, but its extremely rare. SMN is an example where SE didnt try to make it fit its identity (mostly because the job wasnt supposed to be SMN, it was supposed to be a necromancer like job, which was changed semi last minute.)
SMN always AoEed, and did burst dmg.
So if SMN spent more time BUFFING their pet, rather than using DoT (the playstyle could stay nearly the same with this) and building up to powerful burst AoEs from the pet (similar to how 4.0 SMN had low dps for 2mins, and then burst most of their DPS in that window) it would have felt like SMN. also, more focus on AoE dmg, even in their single target attacks. No reason that all jobs have to have single target rotations differ from their AoE ones. SMN should have been the exception.

SE already had the options to make "job identity" work with other jobs, but various last minute changes, and lack of foresight, led to the problems we have now.
They dont make plans for future jobs, so they dont reserve "playstyles" for future jobs.
We have PLD and WAR, lets make one -dmg taken% and the other is HP+healing.
Even though we will eventually make DRK, which usually used HP as a resource in other FFs. We shouldnt reserve the HP function of WAR for DRK. (Which was, and still is, salvageable, but the fix hasnt happened yet. Which is: when out of MP, the -MP abilities take up HP. So dont use up all your MP. (Plus minor fixes, to correct the balance issue this causes, which i wont go into))
But since XI used MP for spells, we'll go ahead and use MP, something PLD already does, out of the 3 tanks.
Lets give the tanks a mix of mitigation, rather than specialization of mitigation.
Lets give PLD: -all dmg received%, +healing received%, -STR of enemy, Blindness, RNG shield blocks on top of parry, +block RNG rate up%, -physical dmg received%, self heals, self HPshield, +defense, Stun/Silence incoming dmg. (Remind me if there are any more im forgetting about 2.0 PLD)
Lets give WAR: +healing received%, +MaxHP, Self Heals, +defense, +Parry Rate, -physical dmg received%, self HPshield(thrill of battle), stun, +increased self healing, Absorb (stacks with other absorbs, and non absorbs), +evasion. (Remind me if i forgot something about 2.0 WAR. This isnt including 2.1 changes with inner beast, holmgang, storms path, and tank stance)

In this example, WAR has a semblance of a theme. but PLD is all over the place. (Not to suggest WAR wasnt still somewhat all over the place)
instead of going with an identity, they just slapped things onto things.
This applied to DPS and Healers as well.

[MrKusakabe]

[...] "Job Identity", whatever the hell that means.

Are you serious or is this just a phrase?
GW2 underwent many changes with their "elite specializations" that this job identity has been watered down so much tha you don't even know what you are playing right now. Granted, I like(d) my Deadeye, but a thief was usually a close-to-medium ranged profession with stealing and stabbing in mind. Suddenly: A sniper. Stealth was only for Mesmer (I think) and thieves. Now all class have some sort of stealth, even the one that is the most "rational" one (reads as: Far off any magic): The Engineer (Scrapper/Holosmith to be more precise). When thieves have a long range and tinkerer gain access to magical abilites, you know you lost your job identity in your game.

Imagine Black Mages suddenly tank better than a Warrior because they gain a funky defensive black magic shield, or Monks are now shooting arrows with their hands by throwing them very, very fast.....or something like that. Don't drink and think.


And this is one serious and important thing to keep, else you will get a strange form of power-creep: Everyone will be a jack of all trades, and we are all homogenized.

But I am sure you knew that.....I hope at least.

Sincerely,