I thought Yoshi wants healer to focus on healing only..

[Nedkel]

Just want to say something here, as someone had played all type of roles: Healer in Coil, Tank in Alex, Healer the first tier of Omega and DPS the remaining tier. The order of stress level is this: DPS -> Heal -> Tank. Out of the three roles, DPS has the highest amount of pressure in term of competition and optimization, and the mechanic they have to handle during the are either equal or more than tank/healers. The pressure on healers coming from both DPS and watching party's HP. Tank is the most relaxing job since their rotation is simple, and also they only watch out for themselves, the most difficult mechanic for tanks usually just involve a tank swap. They also have the highest chance of surviving a screw up (hence the term "tank privilege"). Healer can compensate for their own mistake unless they die in one hit, but DPS has no way to recover if they screw up.

And that's not just my feeling, most of the "good" tanks I talk to in game admit they have the easiest and "boring" role. The only people I see claiming tanks is stressful are either:

- Tanks who claims their job is the most important job.
- Tanks with the egos of "I AM THE TANK, YOU DO WHAT I SAID".
- Or, the majority of "forum" tanks.

Sure if you are talking about trails or raids its easy cake for most part as a tank, but not in other duties. DPS stressful, in savage raid maybe, but not in other content, your death does not wipe the party, you are not being pressured if you do a mistake, and "rotation difficulty" is just a job aspect that everybody could get used to when play long enough and train muscle memory. If you do something wrong as a tank then everybody pays for it.
You could literally wipe entire alliance raid if you position the big boss in the wrong spot, and you could easily die when pulling big, have to adjust and rotate your CDs so you are always having some form of mitigation in order to let you survive otherwise healers wont be able to heal you from it.
You thinking DPS is stressful is only you trying to get the good dps number and kill stuff fast, if you screw something up it does not cost a wipe, barely anyone cares outside of extreme and savage content if you die. If you happen to tank and someone dies because you positioned something wrong then its all on you, same with healers they are resposinble for death of the party even more.

[van_arn]

Sure if you are talking about trails or raids its easy cake for most part as a tank, but not in other duties. DPS stressful, in savage raid maybe, but not in other content, your death does not wipe the party, you are not being pressured if you do a mistake, and "rotation difficulty" is just a job aspect that everybody could get used to when play long enough and train muscle memory. If you do something wrong as a tank then everybody pays for it.
You could literally wipe entire alliance raid if you position the big boss in the wrong spot, and you could easily die when pulling big, have to adjust and rotate your CDs so you are always having some form of mitigation in order to let you survive otherwise healers wont be able to heal you from it.
You thinking DPS is stressful is only you trying to get the good dps number and kill stuff fast, if you screw something up it does not cost a wipe, barely anyone cares outside of extreme and savage content if you die. If you happen to tank and someone dies because you positioned something wrong then its all on you, same with healers they are resposinble for death of the party even more.

Ultimately, if a tank feels tanking is stressful in this game they shouldn't be tanking. This is actually one of the most mechanically simple and straightforward games to tank in, mass pulls included. Shadowbringers changes to threat and simplification of multihit abilities, along with simplified rotations, have made the dungeon basics of tanking borderline braindead. A terrible healer can make tanking harder, but that's a sign your healer needs to be kicked-- not for the tank to pull out extreme/savage tier min/max survivability in dungeon tier content where incoming damage is only substantial in multipulls.

The only assumption I make in the above is the tank has easily-obtained relevant at-level gear and has read their tooltips. If a tank hasn't met those assumptions, again, they shouldn't be tanking.

Same goes for healers, same goes for DPS. If it's stressful, you shouldn't subject yourself to it. Play something else if all three roles are stressful. Perhaps become a triple triad and chocobo racing main.

And, quite frankly, treating DPS as the role that the tourists can play without stress is an insult to the DPS that consistently work to play their role well. The tourists need kicks, too.

[ImDingDing]

U r trying to clear the hardest content on its relevant patch, git gud.
The logic is simple: the less you do the more your team mates need to do in order to catch up, all those healer dps threads are just crying for a carry.

[Banriikku]

Cry for carry? Doing nothing? What the heck are you talking about? The question is what expected SE from the healer role? With this much ogcd heals certanly feels like DPSing but why are the healer damage rotations sooooo crappy ? Weird for me . And why feel some ppl that healer roles are so easy and the healers should be thankfull for their carry? Ufff so much offended ppl.

[CrystalRainbow]

If you don't need to toss out heals you should be helping the party in other ways.

[Tone19]

give me a melee healer

paladin says hello

[Misutoraru]

paladin says hello

And I bet this will be how so call melee healer come out if it even come out
It will have range/cast type heal skill and few melee dps.

[Kaethra]

Just want to say something here, as someone had played all type of roles: Healer in Coil, Tank in Alex, Healer the first tier of Omega and DPS the remaining tier. The order of stress level is this: DPS -> Heal -> Tank. Out of the three roles, DPS has the highest amount of pressure in term of competition and optimization, and the mechanic they have to handle during the are either equal or more than tank/healers. The pressure on healers coming from both DPS and watching party's HP. Tank is the most relaxing job since their rotation is simple, and also they only watch out for themselves, the most difficult mechanic for tanks usually just involve a tank swap. They also have the highest chance of surviving a screw up (hence the term "tank privilege"). Healer can compensate for their own mistake unless they die in one hit, but DPS has no way to recover if they screw up.

And that's not just my feeling, most of the "good" tanks I talk to in game admit they have the easiest and "boring" role. The only people I see claiming tanks is stressful are either:

- Tanks who claims their job is the most important job.
- Tanks with the egos of "I AM THE TANK, YOU DO WHAT I SAID".
- Or, the majority of "forum" tanks.

You my friend, have your head and rear wired together properly. You and the one you quoted. I couldn't have stated it better myself.

For many years, decades even. Tanks and Healers have been regarded as too special to criticize. For good reason too. 20 years ago, you needed a special kind of person to sit there and turn on auto attack, click on a kick attack button and a taunt button. For hours at a time. Healers had to press a button to heal that tank every 10-20 seconds.. again for hours a time. Meanwhile the DPS got a few more buttons, got to see some high numbers, and well they were a dime a dozen.

Back then the first dibs on loot went to the tanks. The better the tank could stay alive, the better the chances of completing the content. And we didn't have this idea that if the DPS could do more DPS, then the healer resources would go a bit further as a result. That changed about a decade ago. But the philosophy hasn't caught up with what I guess we could call, the average player. Next the healers got it, to increase their resource pools. Again with the same mentality as with tanks, to prolong the fight as long as possible to use sheer attrition to defeat the encounter.

Some people still have as I said, these outdated ideas that tanks are important. Ok.. if they're so important, why doesn't everyone play them? Why do statics almost universally want DPS? Well as Raven2014 said in the quote. They are the most stressful and the most needed roles where it matters. DPS struggle to compete against the encounter. They struggle with themselves. They struggle against each other.

But you all know what is worse? And to quote Raven2014 again:

I think this is the most concise counter argument to the healer on heal argument.

- A tank, no matter how badly play, still have to constantly hit buttons aka do something through out the fight.
- A DPS, no matter how badly play, still have to constantly hit buttons aka do something through out the fight.
- So it should also stand to reason that a healer has no excuse to just stand idle when he/she doesn't heal.

Also, even an out-of-rotation hit from a tank or DPS still do SOME damage to the boss, and thus bring the party a tiny bit closer to the goal of downing the boss. An idle healer, or a healer casting heal when there is no damage would contribute absolutely nothing to the goal.

You have tanks that are active.
You have DPS that are active.
And then you have healers... who think they don't need to be.

Think about that for a moment.

Now I said earlier. That if you wish to play a healer and only heal. You could. And I stand by that. But I also said you need to do that with a group that understands what they are getting into. This doesn't apply to Duty Finder. You when I play a role, Healer, DPS, or Tank and I enter DF. When I click ready. I have announced my intent to play to the best of my ability to the other three, seven, or twenty-three members of the group. When I play a healer, I play it as I would my DPS classes. I will try to stay useful to my group and pull as much weight or more than the rest.

Why? Because they rely on me to. When I clicked ready. I told them they can count on me. They can rely on me. That I TOOK responsibility for my spot and my role within the group. That I would hold myself to the same standard as I would hold the rest of them. Mistakes happen, we all understand that, and mistakes are not things many of us will hold against you.

But not giving the same as the rest of the group. Well that I do have an issue with. And that is the crux of this issue.

Because when you click ready, you make a pact, an agreement with the others that you will do your best. Standing there with everyone with full healthbars is violating that pact. Its unacceptable. It will no longer be tolerated. From now on. If you all enter DF and do this. You will be removed. You can cry to GMs all you want. You can quote the rules until you are blue in the face.

We are withdrawing our consent to group with healers who stand around idle. They are AFK as far as we are concerned. That will be the reason for their dismissal.

This is non-negotiable. The decision has been made. And while I can only speak for myself, I'm sure many will agree with this. This is simply how it will be. Even the devs do not get a say in this. We're taking that choice away from them too.

[MsQi]

Bored as !@#$ without shadowflare and the mirasmas.

[GrimGale]

Healers should still contribute to the party progress when no healing is required (And they have MP to spare, which in this game is almost always.)

I just wish that non-healing contribution was designed better so as to be more engaging and entertaining.

I cleared Savage1 a week ago with the scholar. I did horribly in the dps department and focused more on healing. Despite that I casted 47 broils against 24 adlos, 12 Succors and 1 Physick (That I missclicked in panic.)