I thought Yoshi wants healer to focus on healing only..

[HyoMinPark]

it is more the time i took break (before Alexander normal release) and the time i return (ppl were already farming Midas savage)

Either way, you’re discussing an irrelevant fight that had already been nerfed by the developers at that point. Gordias as a whole was brought down because it was overtuned (you actually couldn’t beat Manipulator without having your tome weapons). Not to mention, various jobs had already seen adjustments between 3.0 release and 3.2/3.3, which would just trivialize the content even further (e.g., BRD and MCH were both heavily adjusted throughout HW).

I dont really care if healer DPS become mandatory or not, I just hope we could see some more heal intense fight, cleric stance might not be a good design but I love that concept, switching between heal and dps and if we do it at the wrong time we got punish

I’d like more healing intensive fights as well. But, as I said earlier in the thread, it’s not us that the developers would have to worry about upsetting. It’s the bad healers that couldn’t keep up with the outgoing damage that would then complain about the content being “too hard” and needing to be nerfed.

[Crushnight]

TBH this whole thing will be never ending;
Healing requirements go up to try and stop dps -> Content becomes too hard and large amount of people ask for nerfs -> SE obliges thus healers are asked to dps again rather than twiddle thumbs
or
Take away dps tools -> healers get stupid bored because of above scenerio would happen if healing requirements go up -> SE gives a single dps tool back -> healers asked to dps

Players at this point just have to suck it up and accept you have damage spells, use them during your downtime arguing otherwise is just yelling into a fan, pointless but might make you feel better.

[Raven2014]

I’d like more healing intensive fights as well. But, as I said earlier in the thread, it’s not us that the developers would have to worry about upsetting. It’s the bad healers that couldn’t keep up with the outgoing damage that would then complain about the content being “too hard” and needing to be nerfed.

I love playing healer and I have leveled up three in ShB (partially for the AID bonus). In a way I think I have been blessed with good tanks in dungeon, while not having much of a chance to see how other heal in dungeon. But from my experience with the tanks I had I can tell what you said is true. I always ask or signal the tanks I have that they can do wall to wall pull, usually in a light heart-cheeky way, and if they don't want to do it I don't mind. But the exchanges have been ... enlightening. A few examples that I remember:

- Tank: pull 1 pack of mob.
- Me :moar.
- Tank: doesn't move until the pack die.
- Me:
- Tank: sorry, most healers let me die when I pull big.
- Me: but I'm not most healers
- DPS: wow, love that unhindered confidence, let's do big.
- Tank: proceed wall-to-wall all remaining pull.
- Tank on last pull: you're absolutely right.

Another:
- Me: you can pull big I'm ok with it.
- Tank: eh I'm not a good tank, plus I think my gears are a bit squishy for this dungeon.
- Me: think you're fine if you want to try
- Tank: proceed wall-to-wall the whole dungeon, never dropped below half (turned out to be a pretty good tank).
- Tank on last pull: wow dude, felt like you were tanking with all that healing.
- Me: don't let bad healers make you think you are a bad tank \o/

This one was funny:

- Tank: pulled all 3 packs at the beginning of Akadaemia.
- Me: wow, finally a tank with balls to pull all 3 pack.
- DPS (probably tank's friend): I told him to never trust pug healer!
- Tank: BAH, I LIVE FREE, ON THE EDGE AND DANGEROUS, NO RISK NO GAIN (or something like that).
- Me: didn't think I said anything more, clear the dungeon and got all the comm at the end.

But yeah, things like this kinda give an idea where the average healers are (and that before you accounting for the one in EX/Eden).

[Kaethra]

TBH this whole thing will be never ending;
Healing requirements go up to try and stop dps -> Content becomes too hard and large amount of people ask for nerfs -> SE obliges thus healers are asked to dps again rather than twiddle thumbs
or
Take away dps tools -> healers get stupid bored because of above scenerio would happen if healing requirements go up -> SE gives a single dps tool back -> healers asked to dps

Players at this point just have to suck it up and accept you have damage spells, use them during your downtime arguing otherwise is just yelling into a fan, pointless but might make you feel better.

I've always said player produced problems have player made solutions.

SE shouldn't get involved. They should simply make classes/jobs that are fun for anyone who plays them. For healer roles, that means damage and healing and tools. Then what the players have to do is find their personal playstyle, and players who mesh with that playstyle.

If you want to heal and DPS, group with players that enjoy you doing that.
If you want to just heal, group with players who are fine with that.

Its not that hard. But that's the major problem with this community. It doesn't want to take responsibility for itself.

[Kaedan]

That was a mistranslation/misquote that got out of control.

Yoshida has never said he only wants healers to heal. What he did say is that they were wanting to design mechanics so that there would have to be more active healing involved, which is why they increased outgoing damage in 5.0.

[Raven2014]

Always be casting.

This bedrock fundamental of any job or role is why the battlecry of the worst type of healer out there, "healers heal" is nonsensical.

There are so many OGCD instant heals, ways to reduce incoming damage, ways to heal over time, and class-unique ways to trigger automatic heals that there is simply no excuse in any content to ever use every GCD on healing.

If you are not using your GCDs, you are bad. If you are a healer that only uses gcds on heals, you are bad.

I think this is the most concise counter argument to the healer on heal argument.

- A tank, no matter how badly play, still have to constantly hit buttons aka do something through out the fight.
- A DPS, no matter how badly play, still have to constantly hit buttons aka do something through out the fight.
- So it should also stand to reason that a healer has no excuse to just stand idle when he/she doesn't heal.

Also, even an out-of-rotation hit from a tank or DPS still do SOME damage to the boss, and thus bring the party a tiny bit closer to the goal of downing the boss. An idle healer, or a healer casting heal when there is no damage would contribute absolutely nothing to the goal.

[Nedkel]

Increasing damage will put more burden on a tank and make stressful job even more stressful.

There is not really much SE could do for healers, the content is already challenging, lvling dungeons for instance are doing a ton of damage and i often when lvling my tank jobs meet healers who are letting me sit below 40% hp, bad healers barely can keep healing my tanks even thou i use and rotate all my cd properly its just sometimes not enough.
In the holminster i did just an hour ago i went to 20% hp a couple of time and had to use hallowed grounds to prevent wipe.

Put more damage into duties and you will see bad healers wiping teams left and right.

[PondHollow]

What Yoshi thinks and what his Encounter and Class design teams are actually putting out are two different things entirely.

Three different things, probably.

[Raven2014]

Increasing damage will put more burden on a tank and make stressful job even more stressful.

Just want to say something here, as someone had played all type of roles: Healer in Coil, Tank in Alex, Healer the first tier of Omega and DPS the remaining tier. The order of stress level is this: DPS -> Heal -> Tank. Out of the three roles, DPS has the highest amount of pressure in term of competition and optimization, and the mechanic they have to handle during the are either equal or more than tank/healers. The pressure on healers coming from both DPS and watching party's HP. Tank is the most relaxing job since their rotation is simple, and also they only watch out for themselves, the most difficult mechanic for tanks usually just involve a tank swap. They also have the highest chance of surviving a screw up (hence the term "tank privilege"). Healer can compensate for their own mistake unless they die in one hit, but DPS has no way to recover if they screw up.

And that's not just my feeling, most of the "good" tanks I talk to in game admit they have the easiest and "boring" role. The only people I see claiming tanks is stressful are either:

- Tanks who claims their job is the most important job.
- Tanks with the egos of "I AM THE TANK, YOU DO WHAT I SAID".
- Or, the majority of "forum" tanks.

[Misutoraru]

Either way, you’re discussing an irrelevant fight that had already been nerfed by the developers at that point. Gordias as a whole was brought down because it was overtuned (you actually couldn’t beat Manipulator without having your tome weapons). Not to mention, various jobs had already seen adjustments between 3.0 release and 3.2/3.3, which would just trivialize the content even further (e.g., BRD and MCH were both heavily adjusted throughout HW).



I’d like more healing intensive fights as well. But, as I said earlier in the thread, it’s not us that the developers would have to worry about upsetting. It’s the bad healers that couldn’t keep up with the outgoing damage that would then complain about the content being “too hard” and needing to be nerfed.

I bring A1S simply I want to show how overgear be an issue, may not be an example, but that’s the only fight I queue up sync and outdated.
I was hoping we players could come up with some solutions to help resolve the overgear or iL sync issue when queue as sync. It hit twice as hard for heal, the dps gain aside, tank and dps have larger HP pool and take less damage, making healer having twice the effectiveness. Lowering iL will just drag the fight to be longer. I just couldn’t come up any viable solution