Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Okay then take WoW as an example. Do you think they are focusing on what you deem "quality", or do you think they are focusing on "aesthetics"? What about Black Desert? ESO?

I think investors are happy industry wide, including mmorpgs, to focus on what you deem "just aesthetics".

Believe it or not, "just aesthetics" are a major selling point for an mmorpg. Graphical quality can be included in this as well. Playable races specifically, are being heavily advertised, again, industry wide. Across MMORPGS. I'd like to know what you deem "quality"? We have the same patch cycle even with Viera/hrothgar, what could they have focused on and improved? This is another argument that viera/hrothgar have somehow taken something from players, rather than an addition for players.

I don't play those games so I can't answer that question. All I know is WoW is currently hurting because of bad choices that effect the actual game, things that make FFXIV players defensive whenever someone from WoW pitches an idea from their game that could/should be in FFXIV. ESO is loved but could be doing better, and I hear nothing about Black Desert except OOO pretty.

Neat, my argument is that Aesthetics shouldn't be the core focus. The game should be.
If the game suffers, aesthetics won't mean anything. There is nothing wrong with making cool and silly things on the side, but prioritizing them hurts a game more then helps it.

[SturmChurro]

I don't play those games so I can't answer that question. All I know is WoW is currently hurting because of bad choices that effect the actual game, things that make FFXIV players defensive whenever someone from WoW pitches an idea from their game that could/should be in FFXIV. ESO is loved but could be doing better, and I hear nothing about Black Desert except OOO pretty.

Neat, my argument is that Aesthetics shouldn't be the core focus. The game should be.
If the game suffers, aesthetics won't mean anything. There is nothing wrong with making cool and silly things on the side, but prioritizing them hurts a game more then helps it.

This is a disconnect. You claimed a smart investor would invest in quality. They would not, they will invest in what makes them money. "Just aesthetics" makes them money. I will now quote my edit right before your post.

The truth is, they took nothing from players, and didn't focus on these new races at the expense of the quality of the game, rather they focused on the quality of the game over the new races. That is why they are so limited.

I consider "just aesthetics" a part of the games overall quality.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

This is a disconnect. You claimed a smart investor would invest in quality. They would not, they will invest in what makes them money. "Just aesthetics" makes them money. I will now quote my edit right before your post.



I consider "just aesthetics" a part of the games overall quality.

Sounds like we consider a Games Quality as 2 different things.

[SturmChurro]

Sounds like we consider a Games Quality as 2 different things.

Nope, I think we think game quality is the same thing. It seems to me you just think it's one part of that thing exclusively.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Nope, I think we think game quality is the same thing. It seems to me you just think it's one part of that thing exclusively.

I consider "just aesthetics" a part of the games overall quality.

I don't think this, so we don't think Game Quality is the same thing.
I value a fun game with Fun content over Aesthetics that make a company money.

[Gwenorai]

Aesthetics is where the money is at. It's why many MMOs make bank with cash shops that specialize in 'aesthetic' items. A part of me thinks that's partially why SWTOR is kept afloat, their cash shop makes bank. Most of which are aesthetic items, including race unlocks.

[SturmChurro]

I consider "just aesthetics" a part of the games overall quality.

I don't think this, so we don't think Game Quality is the same thing.
I value a fun game with Fun content over Aesthetics that make a company money.

As I had thought, a "fun" game is only part of what makes up the term of "quality". A game's aesthetics would make up many different parts of any given game, the graphics, the art style, item appearance, races, etc. are some examples. Many would probably argue the Final Fantasy aesthetic is the soul of the product(s). Sound design makes up another part of "quality", and soul of Final Fantasy.

Playable race's specifically, I would like to know how the addition of a new playable race has or may take away "fun content" from the end user. What also constitutes "fun content"? I find playing my viera fun, I found switching races between the plethora we have playable, fun, I find dressing up my character fun. Why is your fun "content" more important than mine, and many others?

Aesthetics are content, and a part of the quality of a game. Otherwise, take WoW for example, why would so many players work so hard to unlock the new allied races, or grind for hundreds or thousands of hours for "just aesthetics". I have listened to WoW players, and podcasts by popular streamers, and they all say they want better rewards, gearing is one of them, but the other are aesthetics. Void elves are becoming, and have become particularly popular.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

As I had thought, a "fun" game is only part of what makes up the term of "quality". A game's aesthetics would make up many different parts of any given game, the graphics, the art style, item appearance, races, etc. are some examples. Many would probably argue the Final Fantasy aesthetic is the soul of the product(s). Sound design makes up another part of "quality", and soul of Final Fantasy.

Playable race's specifically, I would like to know how the addition of a new playable race has or may take away "fun content" from the end user. What also constitutes "fun content"? I find playing my viera fun, I found switching races between the plethora we have playable, fun, I find dressing up my character fun. Why is your fun "content" more important than mine, and many others?

Aesthetics are content, and a part of the quality of a game. Otherwise, take WoW for example, why would so many players work so hard to unlock the new allied races, or grind for hundreds or thousands of hours for "just aesthetics". I have listened to WoW players, and podcasts by popular streamers, and they all say they want better rewards, gearing is one of them, but the other are aesthetics. Void elves are becoming, and have become particularly popular.

You seem to ignore my Previous post
""My argument is that Aesthetics shouldn't be the core focus. The game should be.
If the game suffers, aesthetics won't mean anything. There is nothing wrong with making cool and silly things on the side, but prioritizing them hurts a game more then helps it.""
Im not against Aesthetics, they just shouldn't be the Focus. A pretty game, or having a million options doesn't matter if its not fun to play.

Nothing wrong with making a playable Race, but YoshiP has said in interviews how much work it takes. If they decided to Prioritize that work into a race, which is 100% Aesthetic, it would drain resources from developing actual Content in the game. To get 1 thing, something else has to be Sacrificed...like you said...Game content was prioritized, therefor Completion of the Races were Sacrificed. In my personal opinion, if the roles were reversed and the Races got more attention then Game Content, then the game would be worse off, because there would be little to do. Fantasia sale would go up, but Subscription sales would go down.
MY fun isn't whats important here...is " THE GAME fun", is whats important. Not my Fun, Every bodies Fun. Wanna bring up the Thread that talks about lack of Endgame? Now Imagine that Upgrading into Lack of Content...in general.
Think of the Bigger Picture here.

Those Aesthetics mentioned, I'll guess is Side Content in the game? People work so hard for it Because...its CONTENT. Something you have to work for, something fun you have to do in game. I think you lost that Im talking about taking time out of Developing content for a game to just create a whole (or 2) new Race(s).

[SturmChurro]

You seem to ignore my Previous post
""My argument is that Aesthetics shouldn't be the core focus. The game should be.
If the game suffers, aesthetics won't mean anything. There is nothing wrong with making cool and silly things on the side, but prioritizing them hurts a game more then helps it.""
Im not against Aesthetics, they just shouldn't be the Focus. A pretty game, or having a million options doesn't matter if its not fun to play.

Nothing wrong with making a playable Race, but YoshiP has said in interviews how much work it takes. If they decided to Prioritize that work into a race, which is 100% Aesthetic, it would drain resources from developing actual Content in the game. To get 1 thing, something else has to be Sacrificed...like you said...Game content was prioritized, therefor Completion of the Races were Sacrificed. In my personal opinion, if the roles were reversed and the Races got more attention then Game Content, then the game would be worse off, because there would be little to do. Fantasia sale would go up, but Subscription sales would go down.
MY fun isn't whats important here...is " THE GAME fun", is whats important. Not my Fun, Every bodies Fun. Wanna bring up the Thread that talks about lack of Endgame? Now Imagine that Upgrading into Lack of Content...in general.
Think of the Bigger Picture here.

Those Aesthetics mentioned, I'll guess is Side Content in the game? People work so hard for it Because...its CONTENT. Something you have to work for, something fun you have to do in game. I think you lost that Im talking about taking time out of Developing content for a game to just create a whole (or 2) new Race(s).

You seem to ignore my previous post. My argument is that aesthetics are a core focus, as a part of the game as a whole. Aesthetics are actual content. You are trying to play this off as you being objective, but it isn't. You are just as opinionated as me, except you don't realize "aesthetics" play a gigantic part in the mmorpg genre specifically. Otherwise we would be playing generic games where you would be a default human. See dead indie games, that are lauded for having great gameplay. The most popular have a unique aesthetic, and good gameplay.

If you want to bring up the 'lack of endgame' thread people are arguing the same argument you are here except instead of races "endgame content will take away from other content".

They are not grinding because they think it is fun, they are grinding because they want the aesthetic. Look up the definition. I also don't know if you are a native English speaker, but the way this is worded is you admitting aesthetics are content.

[Mihana]

I doubt this will end the argument but SE is already well aware that female Hrothgar and male Viera are in demand. And Yoshi-P has even gone on record saying that it isn't they don't want to add them but it's down to development time and costs. They wanted to appease both sides, one that wanted Viera and the other that wanted more beastlike races. This was the best course of action they could come up with and if one recalls both races weren't "finished" until after Shadowbringers started. That said if they eventually have the time and money they will look into it so don't take it as them deciding to never finish it. But there are no promises made that it will happen. Just have patience.