If SCH got Energy Drain back, why not do the same for WHMs?

[Caliburn]

*Puts brick down*

One thing I'll give you is that I'm honestly confused on how fluid aura still exists in its current form. First it loses its damage, then it loses its knockback. I just finished leveling WHM to 80 and I didn't touch that skill once.

I think it's weird that chucking a ball of water at something is meant to bind it in place. Nothing fluid about that.

[Billythepancake]

Just for fun, I'll input.

I think scholar getting back Energy Drain, was a poor design choice, at least in its current form. SMN has already changed the identity of Energy Drain, so it really shouldn't have came back with the same name at least.

Scholar, I would allow them the flexibility of getting back unused MP, but honestly choosing between damage and healing is always just going to create a large skill gap for players who don't understand when and what to use stacks on. The bully SCH who only ED's and the Overhealer. I would instead just make it DPS neutral and make it a skill that adds options for recovery and planned OGCD healing use, but doesn't directly add to DPS.

Tactical Conversion:
While having Aetherflow stacks, Tactical Conversion becomes Fey Rouse. While not under the effect of Aetherflow, Tactical Conversion becomes Fey Covenant Cool down of 30 seconds.


Fey Rouse:
This action cannot be assigned to the hotbar. Can only be used under the effect of Aetherflow.
Cost: 1 Aetherflow.

Grants your fairy 10 Fairy Gauge. Increases embraces potency by 40% for 20 seconds. [Will actually give it 20 fairy gauge, because of its Aetherflow cost.]

Fey Covenant:
This action cannot be assigned to the hotbar. Can only be used while not under the effect of Aetherflow.
Cost: 30 Fairy Gauge.

Grants you 1 stack of Aetherflow. Restores MP by 5%


In my opinion, healers should not have to choose between spending their main healing resources on healing and the other on DPS. [Assize is one of those skills that you get to have your cake and eat it too. So it still fits this rule even if its only healing the tank.] Gauge dump skills should complement their healing playstyle and let them heal more efficiently, opening more pathways to DPS.

Choosing for your main resource to be between heals and dps is what makes healers, and more specifically scholar, work so well, imo. Theres a reason people were begging to have it back, because SCH didnt feel complete without it (still doesnt feel complete yet, but it feels better) it gives off a risk/reward system, it gives a hierarchy to your heals instead of just spending whatever whenever, and it raises the skill ceiling. Good scholars will make the best out of their resources, overhealing as little as possible and maximizing dps, while scholars not at the same skill level will end up spending more aetherflow on healing. Quite frankly, scholar does not need more healing options, it already has too many, a good chunk of which I cant think of to use nearly as effectively as indom and excog.

As for what you suggested, that's just rouse. Rouse is not worth an aetherflow, especially now when eos is healing less than she did in SB. Why would I ever waste an aetherflow on it? You'd be better off just using lustrate.

[Rosa_Frandlia]

I think it's weird that chucking a ball of water at something is meant to bind it in place. Nothing fluid about that.

It is the old druid "mud" spell from D&D. That's what it feels like. You are throwing water at the their feet to turn the ground to mud. Well, at least when dirt is what they are standing on.

[Zyneste]

Choosing for your main resource to be between heals and dps is what makes healers, and more specifically scholar, work so well, imo. Theres a reason people were begging to have it back, because SCH didnt feel complete without it (still doesnt feel complete yet, but it feels better) it gives off a risk/reward system, it gives a hierarchy to your heals instead of just spending whatever whenever, and it raises the skill ceiling. Good scholars will make the best out of their resources, overhealing as little as possible and maximizing dps, while scholars not at the same skill level will end up spending more aetherflow on healing.

Thats exactly why it was so terrible to balance. There will never be a meta where SCH isn't King. It will always have a skill ceiling too difficult to balance. Its a gameplay style vs Balance sort of thing.

The rouse clone suggestion, was just a starting point, but I completely understand. It would need to outweigh lustrate at a longer duration and just generally be better.

[Kabooa]

I think it's weird that chucking a ball of water at something is meant to bind it in place. Nothing fluid about that.

Imagine your reaction upon getting slammed with a water balloon.

You sure aren't going flying, but you're probably standing there, motionless, wondering which of your life choices lead you to this moment.

[Billythepancake]

Thats exactly why it was so terrible to balance. There will never be a meta where SCH isn't King. It will always have a skill ceiling too difficult to balance. Its a gameplay style vs Balance sort of thing.

The rouse clone suggestion, was just a starting point, but I completely understand. It would need to outweigh lustrate at a longer duration and just generally be better.

Energy drain was never why SCH was meta, SCH is meta because of A: chain stratagem, it is purely a dps gain that lines up with TA and will always be an advantage to have. And B: it is the healer that can heal the lost for free because of aetherflow and fairy guage. Giving scholar more aetherflow healing would not fix the problem, it would actively make it worse. The more oGCD healing spells SCH gets the more required it will be, because it will always end up being the healer that never stops dpsing to heal. It does not need more healing, and energy drain is a needed tool because of fights like titania ex. I went through all of titania ex refreshing aetherflow at 1-2 stacks because there was no healing to do, the only reason I didnt have 3 stacks at points is because I used excog on CD, and I had honestly just given up on using all my aetherflow before refresh, and that felt terrible. Now when I go into that fight I will ALWAYS have something to do with aetherflow that isnt overhealing.

It's also why this thread is talking about doing something similar to WHM, you always want to feel like your main resource is useful, and this is a game where dps is king, so having something that either dps's directly, or raises the amount of dps you can pump out, is the thing most highly suggested, because it makes sense with current game design and would feel so much better. It's also why I believe WHM needs more oGCD healing options, so it can stay competitive with the other two healers. It is the only healer that relies this much on GCD healing, and when it's main selling point over the other two healers is its huge dps, that's hardly fair that it has to use so many GCDs healing.

[Zyneste]

Energy drain was never why SCH was meta, SCH is meta because of A: chain stratagem.

SCH has been king since Heavensward. Its ability to be flexible in DPS and healing is what has made it king. Being able to pump out consistent Damage, with strong OGCD heals on the fly is what has kept it meta for so long. Chain strat just furthered it. I understand your viewpoint, and I had it at one time too. I just changed my mind on it.

[Billythepancake]

SCH has been king since Heavensward. Its ability to be flexible in DPS and healing is what has made it king. Being able to pump out consistent Damage, with strong OGCD heals on the fly is what has kept it meta for so long. Chain strat just furthered it. I understand your viewpoint, and I had it at one time too. I just changed my mind on it.

So if having so many on the fly heals is what makes it king, which I agree with, because it let's them dps more, then how exactly is giving them MORE on the fly oGCD healing going to make them less meta? The removal of energy drain in 5.0 did little to stop SCH from being meta, it just made it less interesting to play.

[Leiloni]

I actually think this is a good idea. Your reasoning is good and if there's one thing I can't stand more than tunnel visioned dps healers who ignore their primary objective, it's healers who heal too much. There's a lot of overhealing in this game and little in the way of incentive to optimize skill usage. I think this is one idea that would actually be a benefit and may help people.

[Semirhage]

All this discussion has me thinking, since SCH's oGCD healing makes it the king of healing efficiency, and nerfing Scholar down so it's not king ends up killing its identity, perhaps the other design direction SE could take is leaning into the "path of least resistance" and making Scholar's oGCD kit the model for all three healers, then differentiating them in other ways? I mean, since the healing kits themselves are -barely- interactive (blood lilies and aetherflow gating notwithstanding), standardizing with the kit that works best is also a possibility.

That they won't take. But hey, the healer subforums are a great place for awesome design theories that never get implemented. *shrug*