[Spoilers] Why Zenos is the most important character moving forward

[Lauront]

Zenos still needs a god to latch onto. Unless he's planning for it to be Hydaelyn (doubtful, but either way he'd need both), he now has a vested interest in the Rejoining and revival of Zodiark. He would not use the Black Rose if it killed you off, but that does not mean he would not utilise either it or the Empire in pursuit of his "hunt" - if Elidibus is successful in keeping you mired on the First (that could even involve finding a way to get Zenos there) whilst Zenos also uses the Empire to prepare the Source for a Calamity required to resuscitate Zodiark, I could easily see his professed aversions melting away.

I personally don't think there's any obstacles to Zenos's claim, other than Gaius bearing witness to it. His death meant Varis had no reason to disinherit him, and Elidibus's use of his body would also run counter to it.

Which isn't to say I think he's a good character, but he could certainly play a very big role in the story, depending on how Elidibus himself moved the pieces on the chessboard.

It is also possible that Hydaelyn's creators identified Creation Magic as the cause for the calamity, and thus one of Hydaelyn's functions would be to over time get rid of the foundations of creation magic. Which would cause the laws of reality, both aetheric and physical, to become unrecognizable to the Ancients/Ascians and thus unable to be utilized in creation magic rendering it, and the potential threats of it, inert.

We lack a lot of details about the exact events of what happened back in that first calamity other then that it began in a far off city and spread across the world from there, as it spread the Ancients lost control of their creation magic and started mass producing monsters from their deepest darkest fears, and that it started in their area with a sound from the depths of the earth. Which could very well had been a monster tunneling through the earth that had been created by a group of ancients elsewhere and help drive the underlying fear out of control, leading to panic, after it had been built up by rumors of the calamity in other cities.

If the elimination of creation magic is one of Hydaelyn's hidden functions then it could result in a possible story future where there will be no more primals, because the creation magic that allows them to come into being does not work. Allowing Hydaelyn to go to the field one last time to help us defeat a Zodiark possessed/empowered Zenos.

If true, it's all too convenient, to me.

I also don't necessarily buy that that's what he's getting at, if Cilia's reference point is his Praetorium dialogue. He refers to a growing imbalance. Yet the Sundering was, as far as we know, a one and done event upon Zodiark's defeat. That moment did in fact render all existence unrecognizable to the Ascians, fragmented and broken. His contention is that her continued presence in the star is what will warp said laws. Unless she is continuing to sunder and dilute the world (which creates its own unique array of problems, if true), his contention remains a mystery. She has already fragmented all existence, barring the unbroken members of the Convocation, and the protagonist as they progressively regain their "fragments" - for all intents and purposes, "Creation magic" as we know it is gone. For what you suggest to be possible, she would have to completely shatter all consciousness, because what yields Primals is belief/motive (usually collective) and adequate aether to be shaped by that belief. Or alternatively (and taking the other fork in that pathway), diluting aether until it becomes worthless for such purposes, but scarcely unproblematic since virtually all existence is constituted from it. After all, if even beast tribes with no distinguishing talents/traits can summon Primals, given adequate aether, that is enough to deduce (based on our current lore understanding) that it's not driven by the possession of Creation magicks. It's just that the Ancients possessed such deep wells of aether that they could themselves, at an individual level, manifest such beings, without the need for extrinsic aether, and this appears to be what they termed "Creation magic". Whereas he is referring to the twisting of laws both aetheric and physical, which sounds closer to something affecting the star itself, if he is right.

Whilst it's possible that the underground monstrosities were the result of another group of Ancients, with Zodiark then probably being summoned to restore the world and reassert control (perhaps through the act of tempering), there's enough in the setting to allow for the possibility of completely alien/otherworldly parasites, too, and it would not be the first instance of such warfare/invasions we're aware of in the setting, as well as parasites that have always lain dormant in the star.

I'll agree that there's a lot of unknown variables, but I don't think that the elimination of creation magic is all that he's getting at - unless the enervation has not ceased. That would be interesting, but again, it's a big "if" for now.

[Daralii]

Zenos still needs a god to latch onto. Unless he's planning for it to be Hydaelyn, he now has a vested interest in the Rejoining and revival of Zodiark. He would not use the Black Rose if it killed you off, but that does not mean he would not utilise either it or the Empire in pursuit of his "hunt" - if Elidibus is successful in keeping you mired on the First (that could even involve finding a way to get Zenos there) whilst Zenos also uses the Empire to prepare the Source for a Calamity required to resuscitate Zodiark, I could easily see his professed aversions melting away.

I personally don't think there's any obstacles to Zenos's claim, other than Gaius bearing witness to it. His death meant Varis had no reason to disinherit him, and Elidibus's use of his body would also run counter to it.

Which isn't to say I think he's a good character, but he could certainly play a very big role in the story, depending on how Elidibus himself moved the pieces on the chessboard.

The flaw with that is simply that Elidibus has effectively thrown the chessboard in the garbage. He seemed desperate when he marched out into Ghimlyt to kill the WoL, and he seemed like he'd just given up on the moon. The entire reason he told Zenos everything was because, with Hades' death and the WoL's personal rejoining, there are too many unknowns for him to direct anything anymore.

[Lauront]

And the flaw with that is to just assume he's thrown it in the garbage, when he goes on to state in the very cutscene quoted on the prior page that he has a new plan to mire the WoL/D on the First. He was proceeding as he did in the Ghimlyt Dark because he was determined to wear the WoL down, and if possible, slay them, given what he perceived there to be gained from Zenos's uniquely endowed body combined with his own power, as the First was ripe at that point to be rejoined - all that was necessary was a Calamity. I suspect he was hoping to just whittle your Blessing away through sheer perseverance. He has something planned - we just don't know what the shape or colour of it is, yet. And I am just saying Zenos would fit much better into such a puzzle than anything recognisable as a "WoL" other than the protagonist. My bet is that he is banking on him causing enough chaos on the Source to be of use to him there, but if I were him I'd certainly take it a step further and try integrate Zenos into his plans for the First.

[Theodric]

It remains to be seen what Elidibus gets up to next, though I do hope he isn't compromised for the sake of forcing Zenos to be front and centre.

Elidibus taking over Zenos' body and then not really succeeding at doing much at all with it makes me wonder if some major plot was scrapped at the last minute.

[Lauront]

He didn't achieve too much with it in direct confrontation, especially given that your fight was essentially cut short, but he did manage to consolidate power for Varis over the increasingly restless Empire, as well as push him towards waging a war. The Black Rose would have done much more to usher in a Calamity, so by all appearances his plan would've worked swimmingly if the WoL had not been whisked away. What I'm curious about is how much information Emet-Selch relayed to Elidibus and therefore how much of an understanding he has of what came to pass on the First, including the use of your Blessing to absorb the Light, as well as the Exarch's use of time magic to wrest you from the Source - and thus, what he really means in his closing statement.

[TankHunter678]

-snip-

Well one thing to note is that apparently around the time of the ancients there was nothing like Au Ra, Miqo'te, Hyur, Roes, Lalas, Elezen, Viera, or Hrothgar. Given by how the Ancients act like we are wearing concepts of our own design. This leads me to believe that after the sundering is when the races we play as, and the beast tribes, began to show up from the sundered ancients. Which would mean that all the races have access to the creation magic. They just need the appropriate concept model, which was the blueprint the Ascians kept throwing out to them to cause havoc, and a sufficient amount of aether to fuel the spell.

This is made all the more obvious when you look at the First, which completely lacks primals entirely until we tap into creation magic with the help of the aether supply of a Guardian Force left over from the time of the Ancients, Eden, to summon Primals so we can defeat them to restore the flow of elemental aether. The Ascians never supplied the needed knowledge.

Not to mention Emet's assertion that all of us, should we survive the calamities, would get our full powers back and this was directed not just at us but the rest of the scions as well.

So Creation Magic is likely not gone, but just slumbering due to a lack of aether storage in the majority of individuals still around and the lack of knowledge that was common back in the times of the ancients.

If Hydaelyn is meant to remove Creation magic then her twisting of the laws to completely render it inert without having to shatter all consciousness would be her way of doing things to avoid having to harm the life she was created to protect. Which would be a huge problem to the Ascian's plans to perform the rejoining and everything they want to do with Zodiark.

It also seems to me that the way things will go down is that Hydaelyn will finish her duty and go to the field to willingly join us for stopping Zodiark-Zenos.

[MrThinker]

/snip

Don't assume Eden is a Guardian Force in this game just because GFs do exist in this game and Eden was a GF in another game. And we aren't using Eden's aether; we are having Eden pull the aether within the Empty that is stuck in an umbral state towards a more astral polarity, using that aether to summon primals and then killing said primals, because we don't know what would happen if we simply changed the aether to astral and let it be, but do know what happens when a primals aether returns to the land. Also, Urianger is the one who teaches us the summoning rites. We don't innately know how to do it.

[TankHunter678]

Don't assume Eden is a Guardian Force in this game just because GFs do exist in this game and Eden was a GF in another game. And we aren't using Eden's aether; we are having Eden pull the aether within the Empty that is stuck in an umbral state towards a more astral polarity, using that aether to summon primals and then killing said primals, because we don't know what would happen if we simply changed the aether to astral and let it be, but do know what happens when a primals aether returns to the land. Also, Urianger is the one who teaches us the summoning rites. We don't innately know how to do it.

https://imgur.com/a/8iB09UM Akadaemia Anyder notes indicate to help combat the calamity they started developing GFs. What would be a good way to stop their darkness aspect creation magic that they know is going out of control? A light aspected Guardian Force that slows down the aether in the area to slow/stop the effects of the calamity in the localized area, preventing further creation of monsters.

What entity have we met that does that? Eden.

[ObsidianFire]

Just to add to the entire part on Creation Magic. Arcanists are probably the closest we get to Creation Magic being used "normally". Carbuncles, Egis and Fairies all seem like they would fit the basic definition of Creation Magic: concept + aether. The only difference is the Carbuncles, Egis and Fairies use up less aether then their creator can provide and don't have enough influence (or sapience) to Temper anyone. And all the spoken races can use Creation Magic to create primals, even accidentally as is the case with Susano.

If anyone would have stifled Creation Magic, I would think it would be Zoidark and not Hydaelyn to be honest. The entire reason Zoidark was summoned was to end the Last Days that were caused by Creation Magic going out of control. That Hydaelyn (and all other primals) can still be summoned after Zoidark "fixed" the world seems to indicated that Creation Magic works just fine. What has been diminished is how much aether living beings have access too. Which fits with Emet-Selch's definition of what Sundering is. Sundering halfs what something is... which probably goes for how much aether people could use. It doesn't seem to limit what can be done with that aether though.

[ksuyen]

/spoiler

Z killed every leader of each country.

Kan-E-Senna... dead.
Merlwyb Bloefhiswyn... dead.
Raubahn Aldynn... dead.
Aymeric de Borel... dead.
Hien Rijin... barely survived.

All with ease, just like the way he killed his father.