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  1. #141
    Player
    Erendis's Avatar
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    E'renndis Harper
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    Moogle
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    Fisher Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    I want to say we've already been told that Varis named Zenos as his heir long ago, exactly to avoid a repeat of the conflict Solus caused by refusing to do so. I don't know where that information is from though.
    Even if Zenos was named a successor, rumours about him being demon obsessed might induce objections for him to inherit the throne.
    (1)

  2. #142
    Player
    EdwinLi's Avatar
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    Edwin Li
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    Balmung
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    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Erendis View Post
    Even if Zenos was named a successor, rumours about him being demon obsessed might induce objections for him to inherit the throne.
    It was very clear Varis did not name Zenos his successor due to how he believed Zenos was just purely unfit to rule the Garlean Empire.

    If anything it seems Varis may have assumed his goal is in reach and did not actually name a sucessor due to not expecting to be offed so soon which would not have happened if we followed the original course of time and went right into the Garlemald expansion rather than the First since we can assume if we followed through with the Garlean Empire expansion storyline for 5.0, we would have continuously encountered Zenos in a new body over and over again during our progess which would have given varis enough time to prepare and use Black Rose.
    (5)
    Last edited by EdwinLi; 08-05-2019 at 03:11 AM.

  3. #143
    Player Theodric's Avatar
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    Matthieu Desrosiers
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    Cerberus
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    Reaper Lv 90
    Varis did not mourn Zenos' 'death' during the end of 4.0 and explicitly referred to him as a monster unfit for the throne. As of his dying words, he also stated that the burden of the throne was beyond Zenos. So it is highly unlikely that Varis would have named Zenos as his successor. There is, presumably, others in line for the throne - though I have a feeling that Zenos will seek to take the throne regardless of his supposed lack of interest in it as his new outfit in Dissidia NT is explicitly called 'Imperial Court Attire' which suggests to me that he is going to embrace a high ranking position within Garlemald so long as it serves his goals.

    Which sets things up nicely for freeing Garlemald from Zenos' tyranny. Varis genuinely cared for his people yet in many ways his hands were tied by Ascian scheming. Zenos, however, cares nothing for his brethren and would likely exploit them if it meant achieving his goals. I think it's likely that Gaius and Estinien survive their confrontation with Zenos but they will likely have need of withdrawing and gathering support to take him down once and for all so that Garlemald's people can be protected.
    (5)

  4. #144
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
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    The Hermit's Hovel
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    Trpimir Ratyasch
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    Lamia
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    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodric View Post
    Varis did not mourn Zenos' 'death' during the end of 4.0 and explicitly referred to him as a monster unfit for the throne. As of his dying words, he also stated that the burden of the throne was beyond Zenos. So it is highly unlikely that Varis would have named Zenos as his successor. There is, presumably, others in line for the throne - though I have a feeling that Zenos will seek to take the throne regardless of his supposed lack of interest in it as his new outfit in Dissidia NT is explicitly called 'Imperial Court Attire' which suggests to me that he is going to embrace a high ranking position within Garlemald so long as it serves his goals.

    Which sets things up nicely for freeing Garlemald from Zenos' tyranny. Varis genuinely cared for his people yet in many ways his hands were tied by Ascian scheming. Zenos, however, cares nothing for his brethren and would likely exploit them if it meant achieving his goals. I think it's likely that Gaius and Estinien survive their confrontation with Zenos but they will likely have need of withdrawing and gathering support to take him down once and for all so that Garlemald's people can be protected.
    Regardless of how he felt about Zenos and how he reacted to his death, Varis named Zenos as his successor immediately after taking the throne explicitly to avoid a succession crisis like the one Solus / Emet-Selch / Hades left behind. (This comes from the Lore Book Vol. II, if I'm not mistaken - I don't have it myself, so I'm just running off memory.) That said one must wonder what contingencies he had in place for his death, though I guess we'll find out soon enough.

    Zenos' new alternate outfit in Dissidia is just his outfit from when Elidibus was possessing his body and recuperating from the wounds he sustained at the climax of Stormblood. Whether he wears it again nobody can say.

    Zenos says verbatim that he has no interest in taking the throne, continuing the war with Eorzea and Doma, or using Black Rose. His one and only goal is to fight us again, hopefully after we've absorbed power from the two "gods" of the setting (since we all know now they're just really powerful primals), and won't use Black Rose because it could kill us.

    Just because he's unconcerned with the myth arc thus far doesn't mean he's a poorly written antagonist, or that he can't serve as one moving forward. Shadowbringers is set to wrap up the Zodiark / Hydaelyn conflict, and Zenos may be more relevant to whatever lies beyond, die before that as the true final boss of the story arc (like Nidhogg and Tsukuyomi were for Heavensward and Stormblood, respectively), or just get chumped like Varis. Who's to say?

    (What I do know is that back in 2.0 even, Lahabrea seemed to be hinting that without Zodiark's resurrection the Sound that devastated the planet back in the days of Amaurot would return... so maybe that. But I couldn't say for sure.)
    (12)
    Trpimir Ratyasch's Way Status (7.3 - End)
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  5. #145
    Player
    Edax's Avatar
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    Edax Royeaux
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cilia View Post
    Regardless of how he felt about Zenos and how he reacted to his death, Varis named Zenos as his successor immediately after taking the throne explicitly to avoid a succession crisis like the one Solus / Emet-Selch / Hades left behind. (This comes from the Lore Book Vol. II, if I'm not mistaken - I don't have it myself, so I'm just running off memory.) That said one must wonder what contingencies he had in place for his death, though I guess we'll find out soon enough.
    I somehow doubt that Zenos being named successor would mean anything because it's highly probably that Murdering the Emperor is not legal in the Empire, which would preclude any legal transfer of power to the traitor.
    (2)

  6. #146
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
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    Trpimir Ratyasch
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    Lamia
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    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Edax View Post
    I somehow doubt that Zenos being named successor would mean anything because it's highly probably that Murdering the Emperor is not legal in the Empire, which would preclude any legal transfer of power to the traitor.
    This was a direct refutation to Theo's claim that Varis would not have named Zenos as his successor due to his unhinged, warmongering personality making him unfit to rule. The Encyclopedia Eorzea Vol. II contradicts that, stating Zenos was named Varis' successor immediately after he took the throne to avoid a succession crisis like the one he had to deal with. (I need someone with the actual book to corroborate that, as I don't have either book myself. I got to save $ for more important stuff... like Metal Wolf Chaos...)

    That said, the only known witnesses to the murder are
    1. A disgraced, rogue former Legatus and
    2. A filthy savage
    ... so I doubt the fact Zenos killed his father would get in the way of him claiming the throne if he lied about Varis' cause of death.

    Either way, Zenos doesn't care about the throne, so it's a moot point. He has no interest in ruling, only continuing his "hunt," so him being the heir to the Imperial throne is completely inconsequential.
    (8)
    Trpimir Ratyasch's Way Status (7.3 - End)
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    "There is no hope in stubbornly clinging to the past. It is our duty to face the future and march onward, not retreat inward." -Sovetsky Soyuz, Azur Lane: Snowrealm Peregrination

  7. #147
    Player
    Edax's Avatar
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    Edax Royeaux
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cilia View Post
    This was a direct refutation to Theo's claim that Varis would not have named Zenos as his successor due to his unhinged, warmongering personality making him unfit to rule. The Encyclopedia Eorzea Vol. II contradicts that, stating Zenos was named Varis' successor immediately after he took the throne to avoid a succession crisis like the one he had to deal with. (I need someone with the actual book to corroborate that, as I don't have either book myself. I got to save $ for more important stuff... like Metal Wolf Chaos...)

    That said, the only known witnesses to the murder are[LIST=1][*]A disgraced, rogue former Legatus and[*]A filthy savage
    Which is so contrived. The Emperor get stabbed with a katana in his own throne room and no one is there to protect him or even witness anything. Where's the Imperial Guard? Where's the Cameras? Where are the security systems? Throne Rooms are the last places on Eorzea where anyone should get away with an assassination.

    I'll agree that it would make logical sense if Zenos doesn't become the Emperor. I'm just not sure the story is going to be that logical. I suspect the writers are going to want to make Zenos even more powerful by making him Emperor, even if he doesn't rule.
    (4)

  8. #148
    Player
    TankHunter678's Avatar
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    May 2016
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    Selena Zensh
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    Siren
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    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Cilia View Post
    (What I do know is that back in 2.0 even, Lahabrea seemed to be hinting that without Zodiark's resurrection the Sound that devastated the planet back in the days of Amaurot would return... so maybe that. But I couldn't say for sure.)
    It is also possible that Hydaelyn's creators identified Creation Magic as the cause for the calamity, and thus one of Hydaelyn's functions would be to over time get rid of the foundations of creation magic. Which would cause the laws of reality, both aetheric and physical, to become unrecognizable to the Ancients/Ascians and thus unable to be utilized in creation magic rendering it, and the potential threats of it, inert.

    We lack a lot of details about the exact events of what happened back in that first calamity other then that it began in a far off city and spread across the world from there, as it spread the Ancients lost control of their creation magic and started mass producing monsters from their deepest darkest fears, and that it started in their area with a sound from the depths of the earth. Which could very well had been a monster tunneling through the earth that had been created by a group of ancients elsewhere and help drive the underlying fear out of control, leading to panic, after it had been built up by rumors of the calamity in other cities.

    If the elimination of creation magic is one of Hydaelyn's hidden functions then it could result in a possible story future where there will be no more primals, because the creation magic that allows them to come into being does not work. Allowing Hydaelyn to go to the field one last time to help us defeat a Zodiark possessed/empowered Zenos.
    (5)

  9. #149
    Player
    YianKutku's Avatar
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    Miyo Mohzolhi
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    Sophia
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    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Edax View Post
    Which is so contrived. The Emperor get stabbed with a katana in his own throne room and no one is there to protect him or even witness anything. Where's the Imperial Guard? Where's the Cameras? Where are the security systems? Throne Rooms are the last places on Eorzea where anyone should get away with an assassination.
    I assume they would not have expected a random Centurion (I think? Can't recall the exact rank) to suddenly whip out a "savage's" weapon and slaughter his way to the throne room. Gaius and Estinien did kind of follow the trail of bodies behind Zenos.

    Conveniently, said Centurion's body is now also in the throne room, and anyone who survived the massacre will probably attest to their presence in the palace. Especially after this conveniently dead Centurion is identified as one that deserted the battlefield at Ghimlyt.

    This is all stuff that Zenos might make use of, if he is indeed the tactical and strategic genius he is said to be (by the Domans). However, his actions so far are entirely that of a muscle-headed battle-lusted brute, so I don't know if he even cares.
    (8)

  10. #150
    Player
    QT_Melon's Avatar
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    Gridania
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    Qt Melon
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    Cactuar
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    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by TankHunter678 View Post
    It is also possible that Hydaelyn's creators identified Creation Magic as the cause for the calamity, and thus one of Hydaelyn's functions would be to over time get rid of the foundations of creation magic.

    If the elimination of creation magic is one of Hydaelyn's hidden functions then it could result in a possible story future where there will be no more primals, because the creation magic that allows them to come into being does not work. Allowing Hydaelyn to go to the field one last time to help us defeat a Zodiark possessed/empowered Zenos.
    At the end of Shadowbringers, Elidibus states it was intentional, though I'm wondering why he seemed to be more concerned about balance BETWEEN Light and Dark in prior dialog.

    Oblivion has claimed him...
    Emet-Selch...gone. Lahabrea...gone. I alone remain─the last of the unbroken.
    Once more, I am moved to reevaluate the potential of these tattered souls.
    Ah, Zenos. Never did I dream you could overpower me so completely, possessed as I was of your body, and all its uncanny strength...
    And now that I have shared with you the truth of this world and its reflections, who can predict how events will unfold? ...Not I.
    “Emissary”... What a poor jest that title has become. The flow of history has become muddied, its currents wild beyond my capacity to direct them.
    You have wrested the advantage, Hydaelyn. The thieving hands of Your disciples tighten their grip on our star.
    The origins of the world remain hidden and its inhabitants ignorant of their broken existence, just as You and Your creators desired.
    They celebrate the gift of imperfect life─uncaring, unknowing as we weaken and fade.
    But do not imagine Yourself rid of us.
    Though Your champion has indeed proven the most egregious obstacle to our ascendance─a barbed thorn in my side─she may yet be removed and cast into the abyss.
    Oh yes...it can be done. I will keep these “heroes” mired in the First, and victory will be ours at the last.
    Warriors of Darkness now, are they? Then their fate is decided.
    They shall meet the same end as those who came before─death at the hands of Warriors of Light!
    (2)

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