[Spoilers] Why Zenos is the most important character moving forward

[TankHunter678]

(What I do know is that back in 2.0 even, Lahabrea seemed to be hinting that without Zodiark's resurrection the Sound that devastated the planet back in the days of Amaurot would return... so maybe that. But I couldn't say for sure.)

It is also possible that Hydaelyn's creators identified Creation Magic as the cause for the calamity, and thus one of Hydaelyn's functions would be to over time get rid of the foundations of creation magic. Which would cause the laws of reality, both aetheric and physical, to become unrecognizable to the Ancients/Ascians and thus unable to be utilized in creation magic rendering it, and the potential threats of it, inert.

We lack a lot of details about the exact events of what happened back in that first calamity other then that it began in a far off city and spread across the world from there, as it spread the Ancients lost control of their creation magic and started mass producing monsters from their deepest darkest fears, and that it started in their area with a sound from the depths of the earth. Which could very well had been a monster tunneling through the earth that had been created by a group of ancients elsewhere and help drive the underlying fear out of control, leading to panic, after it had been built up by rumors of the calamity in other cities.

If the elimination of creation magic is one of Hydaelyn's hidden functions then it could result in a possible story future where there will be no more primals, because the creation magic that allows them to come into being does not work. Allowing Hydaelyn to go to the field one last time to help us defeat a Zodiark possessed/empowered Zenos.

[QT_Melon]

It is also possible that Hydaelyn's creators identified Creation Magic as the cause for the calamity, and thus one of Hydaelyn's functions would be to over time get rid of the foundations of creation magic.

If the elimination of creation magic is one of Hydaelyn's hidden functions then it could result in a possible story future where there will be no more primals, because the creation magic that allows them to come into being does not work. Allowing Hydaelyn to go to the field one last time to help us defeat a Zodiark possessed/empowered Zenos.

At the end of Shadowbringers, Elidibus states it was intentional, though I'm wondering why he seemed to be more concerned about balance BETWEEN Light and Dark in prior dialog.

Oblivion has claimed him...
Emet-Selch...gone. Lahabrea...gone. I alone remain─the last of the unbroken.
Once more, I am moved to reevaluate the potential of these tattered souls.
Ah, Zenos. Never did I dream you could overpower me so completely, possessed as I was of your body, and all its uncanny strength...
And now that I have shared with you the truth of this world and its reflections, who can predict how events will unfold? ...Not I.
“Emissary”... What a poor jest that title has become. The flow of history has become muddied, its currents wild beyond my capacity to direct them.
You have wrested the advantage, Hydaelyn. The thieving hands of Your disciples tighten their grip on our star.
The origins of the world remain hidden and its inhabitants ignorant of their broken existence, just as You and Your creators desired.
They celebrate the gift of imperfect life─uncaring, unknowing as we weaken and fade.
But do not imagine Yourself rid of us.
Though Your champion has indeed proven the most egregious obstacle to our ascendance─a barbed thorn in my side─she may yet be removed and cast into the abyss.
Oh yes...it can be done. I will keep these “heroes” mired in the First, and victory will be ours at the last.
Warriors of Darkness now, are they? Then their fate is decided.
They shall meet the same end as those who came before─death at the hands of Warriors of Light!

[Lauront]

Zenos still needs a god to latch onto. Unless he's planning for it to be Hydaelyn (doubtful, but either way he'd need both), he now has a vested interest in the Rejoining and revival of Zodiark. He would not use the Black Rose if it killed you off, but that does not mean he would not utilise either it or the Empire in pursuit of his "hunt" - if Elidibus is successful in keeping you mired on the First (that could even involve finding a way to get Zenos there) whilst Zenos also uses the Empire to prepare the Source for a Calamity required to resuscitate Zodiark, I could easily see his professed aversions melting away.

I personally don't think there's any obstacles to Zenos's claim, other than Gaius bearing witness to it. His death meant Varis had no reason to disinherit him, and Elidibus's use of his body would also run counter to it.

Which isn't to say I think he's a good character, but he could certainly play a very big role in the story, depending on how Elidibus himself moved the pieces on the chessboard.

It is also possible that Hydaelyn's creators identified Creation Magic as the cause for the calamity, and thus one of Hydaelyn's functions would be to over time get rid of the foundations of creation magic. Which would cause the laws of reality, both aetheric and physical, to become unrecognizable to the Ancients/Ascians and thus unable to be utilized in creation magic rendering it, and the potential threats of it, inert.

We lack a lot of details about the exact events of what happened back in that first calamity other then that it began in a far off city and spread across the world from there, as it spread the Ancients lost control of their creation magic and started mass producing monsters from their deepest darkest fears, and that it started in their area with a sound from the depths of the earth. Which could very well had been a monster tunneling through the earth that had been created by a group of ancients elsewhere and help drive the underlying fear out of control, leading to panic, after it had been built up by rumors of the calamity in other cities.

If the elimination of creation magic is one of Hydaelyn's hidden functions then it could result in a possible story future where there will be no more primals, because the creation magic that allows them to come into being does not work. Allowing Hydaelyn to go to the field one last time to help us defeat a Zodiark possessed/empowered Zenos.

If true, it's all too convenient, to me.

I also don't necessarily buy that that's what he's getting at, if Cilia's reference point is his Praetorium dialogue. He refers to a growing imbalance. Yet the Sundering was, as far as we know, a one and done event upon Zodiark's defeat. That moment did in fact render all existence unrecognizable to the Ascians, fragmented and broken. His contention is that her continued presence in the star is what will warp said laws. Unless she is continuing to sunder and dilute the world (which creates its own unique array of problems, if true), his contention remains a mystery. She has already fragmented all existence, barring the unbroken members of the Convocation, and the protagonist as they progressively regain their "fragments" - for all intents and purposes, "Creation magic" as we know it is gone. For what you suggest to be possible, she would have to completely shatter all consciousness, because what yields Primals is belief/motive (usually collective) and adequate aether to be shaped by that belief. Or alternatively (and taking the other fork in that pathway), diluting aether until it becomes worthless for such purposes, but scarcely unproblematic since virtually all existence is constituted from it. After all, if even beast tribes with no distinguishing talents/traits can summon Primals, given adequate aether, that is enough to deduce (based on our current lore understanding) that it's not driven by the possession of Creation magicks. It's just that the Ancients possessed such deep wells of aether that they could themselves, at an individual level, manifest such beings, without the need for extrinsic aether, and this appears to be what they termed "Creation magic". Whereas he is referring to the twisting of laws both aetheric and physical, which sounds closer to something affecting the star itself, if he is right.

Whilst it's possible that the underground monstrosities were the result of another group of Ancients, with Zodiark then probably being summoned to restore the world and reassert control (perhaps through the act of tempering), there's enough in the setting to allow for the possibility of completely alien/otherworldly parasites, too, and it would not be the first instance of such warfare/invasions we're aware of in the setting, as well as parasites that have always lain dormant in the star.

I'll agree that there's a lot of unknown variables, but I don't think that the elimination of creation magic is all that he's getting at - unless the enervation has not ceased. That would be interesting, but again, it's a big "if" for now.

[Daralii]

Zenos still needs a god to latch onto. Unless he's planning for it to be Hydaelyn, he now has a vested interest in the Rejoining and revival of Zodiark. He would not use the Black Rose if it killed you off, but that does not mean he would not utilise either it or the Empire in pursuit of his "hunt" - if Elidibus is successful in keeping you mired on the First (that could even involve finding a way to get Zenos there) whilst Zenos also uses the Empire to prepare the Source for a Calamity required to resuscitate Zodiark, I could easily see his professed aversions melting away.

I personally don't think there's any obstacles to Zenos's claim, other than Gaius bearing witness to it. His death meant Varis had no reason to disinherit him, and Elidibus's use of his body would also run counter to it.

Which isn't to say I think he's a good character, but he could certainly play a very big role in the story, depending on how Elidibus himself moved the pieces on the chessboard.

The flaw with that is simply that Elidibus has effectively thrown the chessboard in the garbage. He seemed desperate when he marched out into Ghimlyt to kill the WoL, and he seemed like he'd just given up on the moon. The entire reason he told Zenos everything was because, with Hades' death and the WoL's personal rejoining, there are too many unknowns for him to direct anything anymore.

[TankHunter678]

-snip-

Well one thing to note is that apparently around the time of the ancients there was nothing like Au Ra, Miqo'te, Hyur, Roes, Lalas, Elezen, Viera, or Hrothgar. Given by how the Ancients act like we are wearing concepts of our own design. This leads me to believe that after the sundering is when the races we play as, and the beast tribes, began to show up from the sundered ancients. Which would mean that all the races have access to the creation magic. They just need the appropriate concept model, which was the blueprint the Ascians kept throwing out to them to cause havoc, and a sufficient amount of aether to fuel the spell.

This is made all the more obvious when you look at the First, which completely lacks primals entirely until we tap into creation magic with the help of the aether supply of a Guardian Force left over from the time of the Ancients, Eden, to summon Primals so we can defeat them to restore the flow of elemental aether. The Ascians never supplied the needed knowledge.

Not to mention Emet's assertion that all of us, should we survive the calamities, would get our full powers back and this was directed not just at us but the rest of the scions as well.

So Creation Magic is likely not gone, but just slumbering due to a lack of aether storage in the majority of individuals still around and the lack of knowledge that was common back in the times of the ancients.

If Hydaelyn is meant to remove Creation magic then her twisting of the laws to completely render it inert without having to shatter all consciousness would be her way of doing things to avoid having to harm the life she was created to protect. Which would be a huge problem to the Ascian's plans to perform the rejoining and everything they want to do with Zodiark.

It also seems to me that the way things will go down is that Hydaelyn will finish her duty and go to the field to willingly join us for stopping Zodiark-Zenos.