If SCH got Energy Drain back, why not do the same for WHMs?

[Hatstand]

I'd love to see them get an offensive lily dump of some variety. Not necessarily a direct attack, for the sake of not making the healers too similar, but I think the buff mentioned above would be great.

[Billythepancake]

I know WHM is doing really good right now, but I do want to kind of bring up how lacking wings feels. Maybe it's because I can't actually SEE the 10% mitigation, but I'm comparing to SCHs Seraph and ASTs Neutral and they both feel powerful and you can see the results.

WHM I feel like I just popped Largresse. Nothing special, no one notices. It's not weak, I'm sure it has power behind it. But it doesn't FEEL strong.

I'll be honest, maybe I'm using it wrong, but I don't really feel seraph, she just comes of as rouse to me. The 2 free succors are nice I suppose, but hardly ever needed.

[IttyBitty]

I know WHM is doing really good right now, but I do want to kind of bring up how lacking wings feels.

Temperance is visually lazy. I hate it so much. Give me actual wings, not a recoloured and resized magicked prism effect. What it does is okay but nobody really notices when the wings come out.

WHM feels a bit clunky. I wish you'd be able to weave spells better.

WHM has too many skills to weave with (and 3 of them are conditional on lilies) and not enough things to actually weave often enough. So you constantly feel like you're stopping and starting. It's one of my main issues with current WHM.

[Sebazy]

I've pondered about this as well.

IMHO I think the potency of the lily skills would need to be toned down quite drastically to remain balanced as an oGCD, it'd likely have us clipping horridly again and it'd just lose the current satisfying feel of the whole mechanic. I also think that a straight up DPS dump for Lilies could only really come at the cost of our 900 potency Misery. Again, not a fan of that. For the most part, I don't really find myself with excess Lilies that I can't spend in Savage or Extreme, whilst in casual content like Normals, Maps and Dungeons I find that burning extra Lilies in downtime such between pulls or in transitions does the trick for the most part.

One thought I did have that could be interesting though, would be being able to use a Lily to recast a nerfed version of a self buff on Cooldown. Being able to burn a Lily to get a half duration PoM would be really nice, even if it was half effectiveness as well I think that'd be a good trade? Too strong? Maybe. A bit more interesting than just raw potency though.

WHM I feel like I just popped Largresse. Nothing special, no one notices. It's not weak, I'm sure it has power behind it. But it doesn't FEEL strong.

I'm actually kind of surprised at that. Whilst I'm not the biggest fan of it merely being a rebrand of Divine Seal with a bigger CD on it, the damage reduction can be impactful. The rather wobbly snapshotting a lot of fights seem to have doesn't really help things though, and I'm wondering if that's part of the issue here?

I've been loving it though, even in Primals it's defo got it's uses.

For example, on innocence with double WHM, hitting my wings and throwing a benison on someone with vulnerability stacks will get them through the post adds transition (As long as I do both before the adds die as it snapshots at that moment, long before the AoE actually hits) whereas early on it was often a 1 shot for a healer or squishy DPS. It's also pretty neat for Titania's Fire Hands, Dia or Regen get refreshed as the two stack markers come out, hit Wings+PI, throw a few more glares then a single Rapture pretty much deletes the damage done and gives me plenty of reserve for if a puddle gets messed up and a group ends up having to stack in the thorns.

[Archwizard]

Sch is different from whm because we want to use aetherflow on cd to gain mp, but we also don't want to waste our stacks because they build fairy gauge.

Sure. And on WHM if you're holding 3 lilies, you're neither generating more nor nurturing the Blood Lily.
There's nothing stopping SCH from popping Aetherflow for MP when they still have stacks, except for the fact that it's a waste, much like holding three Lilies or leaving the Blood Lily too long.

I think giving back stoneskin (untraited) to white mage at the cost of 1 lily per use would be a fair compromise.

While a weaker Regen or shield option consuming a Lily would be easier to "dump" on a tank.

If the argument is that the oGCD skills we have are more than sufficient for keeping a tank alive such that we aren't burning Lilies fast enough, how would giving us more of the same tools remedy that issue?
It seems like you're taking the "dump" part too literally here. The goal of dumping at all is to continue to gain some degree of value from them.

I like the idea, however to not make it bonkers as all heck, using a lily that way should not build up the blood lily. Otherwise it would be massively overpowered.

I don't think it would be "massively" overpowered, since even if you're nurturing the Blood Lily in the process, you still have to deal with the fact those same GCDs could be spent on, say, Glare (or even a rank of Stone, depending on the level in which the dump spell is introduced).
But having it not build the Blood Lily is still something worth considering, even if seemingly counterproductive.

IMHO I think the potency of the lily skills would need to be toned down quite drastically to remain balanced as an oGCD, it'd likely have us clipping horridly again and it'd just lose the current satisfying feel of the whole mechanic.

I'm not sure where in my post I gave the impression I wanted the lily heals to be oGCD. I love them in their GCD states since they allow for weaving and on-the-move healing, and the potency they offer gives me a tool for snap-swapping to a tank when casting a Cure II would be too slow.
I only mentioned that they're on the GCD for the sake of illustrating that it's harder to dump them than it would be to dump the oGCD heals Scholars have.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I'm actually kind of surprised at that. Whilst I'm not the biggest fan of it merely being a rebrand of Divine Seal with a bigger CD on it, the damage reduction can be impactful.

At the moment I'm using Temperance in Eden 3 savage against Leviathan's 2nd tsunami mechanic. Wings alone are literally not enough to keep you alive. I know it's rare to ever only have wings and no other mitigation, but that was really disappointing to see that the dmg reduction didn't actually save anyone. So it's basically a supplement to better mitigation.

[Sathona]

I dont even have Fluid Aura in my hotbar,if it somehow helped with blood lilies tho its a different story.

[Lagomorph]

Sure. And on WHM if you're holding 3 lilies, you're neither generating more nor nurturing the Blood Lily.
There's nothing stopping SCH from popping Aetherflow for MP when they still have stacks, except for the fact that it's a waste, much like holding three Lilies or leaving the Blood Lily too long.

The process of generating and using a blood lily is usually a dps loss. Sitting on your lillies just means that you're wasting heals, something that is of little consequence when there isn't any active healing to be done. It's different on sch because our fairy gauge doesn't need to be used immediately, which is why prior to energy drain being introduced a sch sometimes wanted to through out lustrates before using aetherflow even though they went 100% into overheal. Unless there is downtime or a phase with multiple targets for misery, there is rarely any gain from throwing out a 100% overheal afflatus spell, which is why these two are fundamentally different. If there were not fairy gauge and scholars had no incentive to use every aetherflow stack, then your comparison would work better. The reason that I proposed stoneskin would be a fair way to use lillies is that it would allow a white mage to use a lily to have some value, even if that value wouldn't come into play until the future. The reason why your idea doesn't really work is that it'd make misery too strong. Right now misery is a 900 potency gcd, that requires 3 gcds to build up to. So essentially over 4 gcds you're averaging 225 potency per gcd. Now imagine if those 3 gcds to build up to misery were 300 potency instant cast glares. Suddenly the average potency of those 4 gcds is 450. It's the same thing if it were ogcd. You could even make your lilies be usable on a 0 potency ogcd, and it would still be too powerful. This is because now that 900 potency attack that took 4 gcds to use before only takes 1 gcd. If you want lillies to be able to be used for damage, misery needs to be either entirely reworked or just removed entirely.

[Fawkes]

Lilies take so long to charge up, I feel like I'm more frequently out of lilies when I need to heal rather than sitting on lilies with nothing to do with them.

And overall I still dislike WHM having gimmick stuff, IMO it should've been the basic healer with no gauge at all, so tying more stuff to lilies is not what I want.

[Zyneste]

Just for fun, I'll input.

I think scholar getting back Energy Drain, was a poor design choice, at least in its current form. SMN has already changed the identity of Energy Drain, so it really shouldn't have came back with the same name at least.

Scholar, I would allow them the flexibility of getting back unused MP, but honestly choosing between damage and healing is always just going to create a large skill gap for players who don't understand when and what to use stacks on. The bully SCH who only ED's and the Overhealer. I would instead just make it DPS neutral and make it a skill that adds options for recovery and planned OGCD healing use, but doesn't directly add to DPS.

Tactical Conversion:
While having Aetherflow stacks, Tactical Conversion becomes Fey Rouse. While not under the effect of Aetherflow, Tactical Conversion becomes Fey Covenant Cool down of 30 seconds.


Fey Rouse:
This action cannot be assigned to the hotbar. Can only be used under the effect of Aetherflow.
Cost: 1 Aetherflow.

Grants your fairy 10 Fairy Gauge. Increases embraces potency by 40% for 20 seconds. [Will actually give it 20 fairy gauge, because of its Aetherflow cost.]

Fey Covenant:
This action cannot be assigned to the hotbar. Can only be used while not under the effect of Aetherflow.
Cost: 30 Fairy Gauge.

Grants you 1 stack of Aetherflow. Restores MP by 5%

_______________________________________________________________________

For WHM, I would just redo Fluid Aura as a buff. Use it as a sort of short term Lightspeed at the cost of a Lilly on the OGCD.

Fluid Aura:
Spells have their cast times reduced by 50% for 6 seconds. Consumes one Lilly. Ability Cool Down 15 seconds.

This would give you a sort of Malefic cast time to weave you other OGCDs, while allowing you to generate Bloody Lilly growth, without careless healing. [If 50% is too powerful because of Raise, it can just flat reduced cast times by 1 second. It affects cast times, not recast times, so its similar to Lightspeed and not PoM.

_______________________________________________________________________

In my opinion, healers should not have to choose between spending their main healing resources on healing and the other on DPS. [Assize is one of those skills that you get to have your cake and eat it too. So it still fits this rule even if its only healing the tank.] Gauge dump skills should complement their healing playstyle and let them heal more efficiently, opening more pathways to DPS.