Summoner Early Post-Launch Feedback at level 80

[HeulGDarian]

Unfortunately, that's actually what the class needs, so yes. The DoTs actually detract from the playstyle of the class at this point, both directly and indireclty. Ruination actively hurts SMN's design and with how tight the timings are, if you cast DoTs even a second too soon with TD, you will lose it the damage bonus for 1-2 GCDs.

It is a classic example of something that sounds good on paper but in practice flat out doesn't work right.

And if we're going to start deleting mechanics, other things have to be brought up OR ADDED. So if you remove Ruination, you need to add 20 potency to every ruin spell at a 50-75% rate to maintain damage neutrality. If you remove DoTs, that's about 70 as well over every GCD on average. You can't just rip one thing out without everything being affected, and that's a lazier way of doing it where it's not actually a rework.

Also less stuff makes balancing harder. Also Also its easier to simply revert the changes the arguement of this is bad, lets delete it and since we started lets rework the whole class especially since youve already said that the class is not to your taste and even more so when the job functioned nearly perfect before those changes and all it needed was polish goes to say how forcefully youre trying to shoehorn a rework. Youre not making an arguement youre throwing a fit of how much you disliked summoner and how you still do. Youre literally playing with the pain those Who liked it feel.

[Taranok]

Also less stuff makes balancing harder. Also Also its easier to simply revert the changes the arguement of this is bad, lets delete it and since we started lets rework the whole class especially since youve already said that the class is not to your taste and even more so when the job functioned nearly perfect before those changes and all it needed was polish goes to say how forcefully youre trying to shoehorn a rework. Youre not making an arguement youre throwing a fit of how much you disliked summoner and how you still do. Youre literally playing with the pain those Who liked it feel.

I suppose this means Black Mage is the hardest class in the game to balance because its rotation is the smallest in terms of unique actions per minute. Oh, wait, it's the opposite of that.

[HeulGDarian]

I suppose this means Black Mage is the hardest class in the game to balance because its rotation is the smallest in terms of unique actions per minute. Oh, wait, it's the opposite of that.

W8 actually. You got a point there i actually phrased it wrong let me rephrase it . a job that has less options to achieve something makes it hard for that something to be balanced. ill take the example you had given to remove the dots and add them to ruin and also make ruin instant . With that change beside the utility lost I've stated means that changes to it would have more of an impact . let's say you want to nerf 10% gcd damage let's say that your gcd is 40% and the ruin does 300 . Your only choice is nerfing ruin to be 225 potency . let's say we have 2 actions. now we can do 10 different nerfs to achieve this status . with 3 actions i need to refresh my advance calculus to give you the number . Ofc this isn't all there is in balancing but it's something to consider.