How I would want SMN to work.

[Burningskull]

Remove Pets.
Remove Ruin Bio and Miasma.
Remove Trances.
Remove Atherflow or Rework it.
Seperate Summoner and Scholar. With the way advanced jobs work there is no reason Scholar needs to be tied to Summoner anymore.

Have actual spells that summon atherial versions of primals that appear for a few seconds to do their attacks and then leave. This way from lvl 50-60 you could have spells from Ramuh, Shiva, and Leviathan. A spell from Bahamut at 60. Then 60-70 you could have spells from Ravana and Bismark. A spell from Alexander at 70. So on and so on. Have some gimmick where one primal will empower another primal so you have a reason to cast all your spells. Maybe have the Bahamut and Alexander spells combo some how since they are the level capped spells. Or have combos of primal spells build Atherflow to summon Bahamut or Alexander to do their big attacks. This way your summons are your spells and not just mobile DoTs as people call them.

[DJMau]

So basically a Black Mage with more particle effects. Though to be fair th the that's what they've been since their inception.

[Siete]

Can pretty much agree Tbh.
It could make a considerable difference from BLM if it was made of instant casts and more of a combo class like Melee DPS but using different primal abilities.
Although right now SMN is the same as BLM but badly done.
When I picked this class I expected SUMMONING and dealing damage through it, alas my Ruin hits for 3600s right now while Ifrit-Egi hits for 300.
It takes 12 attacks from Ifrit-Egi to match a 2.5 ruin cast.
And the DoTs? Pretty much the same as Ifrit-Egi.
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/RFmv7...-done&source=6
Even on almost perfect parses, Bio+Miasma+Egi damage doesn't even reach Ruin's damage.
This is bad bad.

[Sequora]

I really like the trances and the Demi summons. This sounds too much like a BLM with a different effect. I wouldn’t mind them changing our spells to be more based off primals. Primal based DOTs. A filler spell based off primals

[Siete]

I really like the trances and the Demi summons. This sounds too much like a BLM with a different effect. I wouldn’t mind them changing our spells to be more based off primals. Primal based DOTs. A filler spell based off primals

Demi-summons and trances are to stay imo.
Just make filler spell be dependant on the last egi skill used or something and combining different egis fill some sort of gauge to trance and trance to summon demi just like it works now.

[Brightshadow]

I want trances and demi summons merged together. And egis skills as our main rotation when not in a trance.

Example: similar to how Phoenix works at 80.

1st rotation: egi do egi assaults 1-4?

Build demi summons gauge

2nd rotation: summon demi bahamut and use dreadwyrm trance while he's out.

3rd rotation: summon demi Phoenix use her trance rotation.

4rd rotation: summon demi Alexander use his trance rotation.

Restart.

Future Demi's would increase rotation time but wouldn't introduce button bloat since everything should work change based on egi assaults 1-4 / enkindle

[Aomine1992]

The dots and egis really need to go and delete ruin please lol but I do rather like the trances and Demi summons but combine DWT and Bahamut like FBT and honestly make other trances like FBT like SE did that one right but missed everything else lol

[Atamis]

Wouldn't mind some changes. I'm a fan of the long cast time summoner myself. 4sec casts and multiple zeros at the end of the damage number.
Don't know if splitting off SCH would really truly change much. We share similarities but theres not anything really linking the two. It could be cut off either way i suppose. If they did, i certainly hope they would give all the books to SCH and bring back a fairly underused SMN weapon.
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Racket

[Tulzscha]

My only concern with having a bunch of different primal abilities is we would end up with a mess of stuff that doesn’t work together and it wouldn’t be fun or interesting to play. Combining DWT with Bahamut makes for a more impactful cd but takes away from the job overall. I’m thinking:

4-5 minor summons like Ifrit and Titan but not permanent
-Heavy mana cost
-30s cd not shared
-15s duration, one active at a time (new summon replaces old)
-Substantial effect on summon
-3 or 4 Egi Assault abilities for us to use, at least one of which offers utility (on different abilities), shorter cd and maybe 3 charges
-2 charges on Enkindle to make use of multiple summons
-Ruin and Outburst change slightly based on which minor summon is active, adding a small effect mostly for flavor
-Generate flexible resource Aetherflow for Trance and burst abilities

Using minor summons give us a resource (Aetherflow) that allows us to enter a Trance
-Trance is used to prepare a major summon, should feel like something massive is coming
-Fill up a gauge rather than depleting (mostly for feel of building up to something)
-Replenishes mana
-Unique rotations specific to Trance, your abilities used determines which major summon you get
-Deathflare still exists and ends Trance
-Length of Trance affects length of major summons but caps early, so you can cut it short for burst at the cost of overall dps but don’t have to worry about a small window for max dps

2-3 major summons like Bahamut
-All on one button, changes depending on Trance
-Different uses for each, at bare minimum single target vs aoe
-Replace Ruin, Outburst, and other base abilities, changing rotation like with Phoenix
-Phoenix becomes one of these major summons, nothing comes after them (not sure about this)
-25-30s duration

Dot package converted to work with summons
-Energy Drain/Siphon, Bio, Miasma, Bane, Fester, Tri-Disaster, Painflare all reworked
-Some could be packed into EA/Enkindle abilities so we still maintain dots through different summons but can safely ignore them in short encounters in favor of other summons’ burst abilities
-Aetherflow reworked to be the resource minor summons generate to activate Trance and then some
-Option to consume Aetherflow for burst when Trance is on cd or delaying Trance for short term gain

This may be way too complicated but it retains almost everything we have, condensing it to work with our summons while expanding on them.

[Aomine1992]

snip

This is way to much going on, the class is a mess and no fun already.

If they combined Bahamut with DWT all they would need to do is shorten DWT to something like 45secs, you would essentially be summoning back to back but that’s what this class is supposed to be doing anyways. We don’t need the dots, egis and honestly arguably the stuff that comes with aether flow it’s all fluff and can be an annoyance to cut cast to do. DWT can have two different filler spells just like FBT. Summoning and Invoking primals is what we should be doing also if they wanna keep the current timer just add a third trance.

But more so realistically since SE lacks the resources to make impactful changes outside of xpacts.
- Extending dots to 33 or 35 would help tremendously with dot clunky behavior.
- if they insist on making us so stationary then we need something like what RDM has or BLM teleports.
- Ifrit needs to actually perform, not his gimped performance now.
- Egi assaults should be available for use during cast just like everything else with your pet is.
- I don’t have an issue with ekindle honestly
- the drop in damage for Ruin without dots or ruination needs adjusting going from 12-14k to a 6k ruin 3 because dots fell off right before DWT is annoying.
- tri disaster could use a lower cd but honestly I don’t know how that would effect rotations.
- aetherflow serves littler purpose now

There are more things that can be done but for me those are some of the bigger ones.