SMN; How do poison DoTs fit the class?

[Coulvre]

I always really liked the DoTs. I see the point some people are making that it doesn't really fit with the traditional idea of a Summoner, but I think it makes sense and it's an interesting new twist on the idea. I agree the idea of using magic based on the study of medicine, etc. fits SCH a bit more, I'm a little sad they removed Leeches from a lore perspective because I really like the kind of old-timey doctor thing. But I think it fits with SMN too, not just because they have the same basis, but because I could easily imagine summoners developing poison-based magic as something to complement their summoning, just as in terms of gameplay it supplements pet-based skills and so on.

[Nyoraii]

It doesn't. It fits SCH more than SMN which is ironic since they removed a bunch of SCH's dots.

I think the thing that ticks most people off with SMN is how in the latest expansions they've been distancing themselves from this DOT SMN (DWT, Deathflare, DB, FBT, DP all Summon related and not DOTs).

And then on 5.0 they just make it so that almost all of SMN's dps is tied to DOTs, and if DOTs aren't applied, then your dps is just almost nil.

It really feels like there were like 5 people designing the class and all of them had different ideas, so they just put everything in it and hoped that would work.

[Videra]

And then on 5.0 they just make it so that almost all of SMN's dps is tied to DOTs, and if DOTs aren't applied, then your dps is just almost nil.

I'm sorry but, what? This has literally always been the case.

[Nyoraii]

I'm sorry but, what? This has literally always been the case.

Sorry, I don't remember RUIN dps being tied to how many dots there were on the target, are you sure? Obviously, the dps rotation was always reliant on dots, but it was not like you lost 50% of your dps if you casted a ruin with no dots.

What I meant is that, while at the same time they were distancing themselves from SMN being a DOT class, in this expansion they went on and introduced another mechanic that makes SMN completely reliant on DOTs. Funny enough, if you have dots at a 100% upkeep on the target, you get mediocre DPS. If you don't have 100% upkeep and cast some ruins with no dots, then you get a lower dps than tanks and healers.

[HeulGDarian]

Ok first of all we are both an arcanist and a summoner . This is why we have dots. sure when smn started he was more like warlock but now he isn't that doesn't mean that we should throw them away they are still something from the arcanist part

You CANT compare different iterations of summoner that is the whole point of the series . Lydia uses blm even though she is a summoner. Yuna uses whm even though she is a summoner . Dagger(garnet) uses whm even though she is a summoner . Terra uses blm even though she not only is a summoner but a summon herself. The whole cast of ff13 has a summon along with any other ability . Noctis is the only one who can summon and he is doing magic and sword fighting.

Honestly stop trying to compare each other its the whole thing of the series to not be alike.

[HeulGDarian]

Shadowbringers spoilers. But if you're adverse to spoilers you need to stay the hell out of current lore discussions.

Bio and Miasma are Darkness-aligned magics in the tradition FF14 follows, in contrast to how Glare and Dia are light-aligned spells.

Darkness, in FF14, however, is also astral-polarized magic, the magic of creations and simulacras. The Ascians use Darkness-aligned magics and teach some of it to beast tribes; the snippets they teach is modern primal summoning.

The reason Summoners use these things, then, is because they're using pure Astral magicks, both of the small sort such as Bio and Fester, and of the larger sort such as Dreadwyrm Trance, and Deathflare. These magicks pull directly from the aether that has pervaded the Source since the Seventh Umbral Calamity, now identified as the Calamity of Darkness, of Astral-polarized aether.

So that's why. Summoners are astral-polarized mages.

There that's the reason why arcanist who create pets and further on summoners and scholars have dots it fits lorewise and it was due to this reason that we could get a grasp on summoning entities better . summoner fits 10 times more than scholar does on arcanism because for those who haven't checked the original concept of scholar was that he can't utilise much magic but he could use items who had magic in them better than those who casted magic and also scan for weaknesses. but even though i say that this itteration makes sense cause scholar unlike summoner can't summon as good as him since he can't trance his aether to make demi entities that's why the faeries Don't have devotion or enkindle skills instead they have the faerie gauge which is made from using aetherflow effects to allow th faeries to do more stuff .Scholar also can utilize the aetherflow as is for different effects such as scanning weakness ( stratagem) or increasing defenses.

[Sequora]

Ok first of all we are both an arcanist and a summoner . This is why we have dots. sure when smn started he was more like warlock but now he isn't that doesn't mean that we should throw them away they are still something from the arcanist part

You CANT compare different iterations of summoner that is the whole point of the series . Lydia uses blm even though she is a summoner. Yuna uses whm even though she is a summoner . Dagger(garnet) uses whm even though she is a summoner . Terra uses blm even though she not only is a summoner but a summon herself. The whole cast of ff13 has a summon along with any other ability . Noctis is the only one who can summon and he is doing magic and sword fighting.

Honestly stop trying to compare each other its the whole thing of the series to not be alike.

I agree with most of your points expect for the first one. Most of the jobs are heavily tied to the class. BLM is the best example of this. Thaumaturge learns fire, ice, and lightning based magic. BLM extends on this. All the melee classes are similar in this regard. SMN does not feel like a natural extension of ACN.

[Siete]

I agree with most of your points expect for the first one. Most of the jobs are heavily tied to the class. BLM is the best example of this. Thaumaturge learns fire, ice, and lightning based magic. BLM extends on this. All the melee classes are similar in this regard. SMN does not feel like a natural extension of ACN.

Because ACN splits into two.

SMN should be more egi summon and egi trance oriented, the DoTs should be replaced by something else later on.

[Dyvid]

Because ACN splits into two.

SMN should be more egi summon and egi trance oriented, the DoTs should be replaced by something else later on.

Ok but look at ACN as a whole rather than a section. It's pet was dps based, it's abilities are dps based, it's role is dps. The only healing aspect of ACN is physick and resurrection. SMN is a Pet/DoT based job since 2013 and there is no need to move away from that. DoTs are easy to apply and give you sustain damage overtime so you can focus on other aspects like command Egi and Demi Phase cycles.

[Siete]

Ok but look at ACN as a whole rather than a section. It's pet was dps based, it's abilities are dps based, it's role is dps. The only healing aspect of ACN is physick and resurrection. SMN is a Pet/DoT based job since 2013 and there is no need to move away from that. DoTs are easy to apply and give you sustain damage overtime so you can focus on other aspects like command Egi and Demi Phase cycles.

But does it apply as an egi/primal power summoner to use common poisons as attacks?