Does the community ever have a constructive conversation about RMT?

[Moonlite]

snip

I think players have some weird ides about acceptable game play that helps RMT. This was an answer to bots which help RMT "the in game economic impact is the least important issue with bots. if anything, their material farming directly benefits most players by driving down costs of near-worthless materials." So botting which helps mass fund RMT is OK? if it keeps prices low.

Do tell more. At my level 50, it sounds like it takes you 3 days to make what i have in 5 months and I craft a ton. I'm all ears....Viera jokes aside. Or is it 'I can make this much once I'm level 70 (80 now) and have a good FC and friends to run statics and and and...'? Seriously, give us worthless lazy peons some pointers.

You do challenge log, daily hunts, and beast tribes, venture retainers when on (when auto log off is off you don't even need to play walk by and reventure), sell or do maps and sell mats (try to sell singles if enough retainers people pay way more for one then 99). That averages me a million a week give or take. Retainers bring a lot of garbage but can easily sneak in over a million. maps also sell well don't under bid sit on them and wait server prices will come back up over weekends.

Tbf, it's entirely possible to start raking in the gil as soon as you've unlocked retainers, giving you access to the Marketboard minigame. That's really all it is to some players. Buy low, sell high. No other content required. If you're willing to spend much of your game time buying and selling, you can make a fortune.

This game is so lucky it doesn't have a true MB scan buying bots(at least that I know of). So many under vendor price items. If you had a desynth lots of gear/fish is garbage has really good desynth. Crystals alone would probably make you a bunch if you sat all day buying desynthing.

[Kaedan]

Thus I suggested a tax, tax the rich more and remove gil from the economy. This will lower prices across the board and give better access to to it themselves.

No, no it wouldn't. Not at all. In fact, it would INCREASE prices as people would simply pass the cost of the tax onto the consumer (just like sellers do in real life)

This is economic 101.

Again no, no it isn't. You have demonstrated that you don't even know 101 levels of economics

Once again, RMT has a nearly negligible effect on prices. While certainly people buy gil (as evidence by the fact they just banned 9000+ people involved in buying or selling gil this last ban wave), it's still a small fraction of the overall playerbase (who don't buy gil). Thus, the prices are still determined by what "normal" players are willing to pay, not by people who are rich from buying gil.

Actually, to be quite frank, you need to understand that the vast majority of gil sales are not for "rich" levels of gil. They're for 5 or 10 million, which is not a significant amount in FF14. You can earn that amount passively (not doing any active crafting or selling) over 2-3 months. And if you actively try to earn gil, you can earn it in a matter of days.

That's one nice thing about FF14's economy, is that aside from brand new items (which come down in price after a couple weeks) or the most extremely rare items, prices are very affordable by everyone.

[TwistedTea]

In a real world markets only support prices that people would pay for, but RMT literally screws that up. It clearly also screws up everyone's perception of what actual value is...

Legacy wealth is, its akin to being born and getting a small loan of a million dollars from your father, it us *absolutely* a problem. It gives a huge advantage to older players versus new players.

While RMT does cause inflation, it also means newer players can sell at higher prices

Legacy wealth is not the issue, you're making it out to be because FFXIV has an abundance based economy regarding items/crafting mats.

By spending time even on a casual level,technically everyone can acquire the same resources.

Second, there's a gil cap. If someone is really dedicated, they could cap gil on all 40 characters, retainers, create FCs for each character and cap the FCs chests as well. Then buy things like allagan coin pieces/demimaterias.

But the above scenario is ridiculous, how many players actually go through that much effort for a currency which becomes worthless after a certain point?

More often, you'll see people stop putting in the effort to make gil after a certain point because it's just not worth it apart from vanity.

* as an addendum 20 million in 6 months is absolutely not enough to be viable in this game, entire gathering or entry time raiding gear is in the 100 of millions when its said and done. So playing a game for six months and not be viable while everyone gets richer, the games prices inflate and not enough gil is removed from the system. Thus making RMT the perfect thing for new players to engage them, I dont see why they wouldn't

.

I'll let the raiders speak about raiding costs.

But entry level crafting/gathering gear is available in the form of scrip gear.

You might not be able to make the explosive gil from having pentamelded crafting/gathering gear at the start of a major patch/expansion.

However, you most certainly can make hundreds of millions of gil using scrip gear and crafting/gathering items which don't require to be HQed or non-max level items which the high-end crafters/gatherers ignore.

It comes down to spending time studying the Market.

[MomomiMomi]

You can still make a solid profit, instead of 100mil it would be 1million , because with reduced inflation 1 million effectively becomes the new 100mil. You wouldn't be poorer, or richer just less zeros and that would in return make your items more accessible to other thus increasing your profits more, but not to the point that taxes eat into your profits.

Nope. Doesn't work in a game. Value must be compared to vendor prices. As inflation rises, you can buy more because game-determined prices do not adjust. The biggest example of this we have is housing. A medium house is 20 million gil whether you're making 1 million or 100 million. If you're making 1 million, you're 1/20th of the way to your house. If you're making 100 million, you can buy 5 houses.

In this way, inflation is good for new players, not bad. They can afford more than than they could otherwise.

Also, you can stop trying to apply real world economics. This is an MMO. They function on their own economic systems.


Finally, you directly contradict yourself in the quoted paragraph. I'll let you figure out where yourself.

[HumanNinjaToo]

Maybe we should increase the taxes on the richer players so eliminate some of this excess gil in the system. Seriously so it would then put them in line with your average player and bring prices down across the board and make more of the game accessible to the player base in a reasonable time.

OMG socialism has finally invaded the forums. o.O Socialism doesn’t work comrade...

[MsQi]

Might as well have a constructive conversation about demolition.

[Mistyregions]

So 9,000 players are just those who got caught. RmT doesnt survive as a business on 9,000 individuals. Secondly I see the writing on the wall and I have read your responses and we will have to agree to disagree on how economics work. The writing is on the wall and in 5 years when everything cost 600 mil a pop or square introduces a huge tax to filter gil out we shall see who was correct. Neoliberalism policy never works.

[KageTokage]

That 9,000 figure consists mostly of the expendable farm bots used to gather the gil.

Illicit activity is an extremely broad category that covers virtually every type of ToS violation that doesn't involve social interaction, including the hacks used by said bots.

[Nix]

* as an addendum 20 million in 6 months is absolutely not enough to be viable in this game, entire gathering or entry time raiding gear is in the 100 of millions when its said and done. So playing a game for six months and not be viable while everyone gets richer, the games prices inflate and not enough gil is removed from the system. Thus making RMT the perfect thing for new players to engage them, I dont see why they wouldn't.

That's news to me - I clothe all of my crafters and max level battle-classes for free and I have no problems with high end raiding content :3
(As an aside - my forum character is not my main, before that is mentioned.)

20m in 6 months is absolutely viable - Currently sitting on 45m and do you know what I spend it on?






Nothing.



Not a thing.
I have a mansion -that ate 50m of my savings and I furnished it for free. I have all crafts at 70 which makes it easier, but I hardly play; maybe an hour or so every night.

If you want to make the argument that new players have it rough and will be forced to buy gil, that's not true at all. I've levelled several alts on different servers from scratch with no help from my main, and the amount of gil that comes in just doing basic ingame tasks is pretty substantial.
If you're wasting 100s of millions on getting a gearset, you're doing it wrong.

[Mistyregions]

That's news to me - I clothe all of my crafters and max level battle-classes for free and I have no problems with high end raiding content :3
(As an aside - my forum character is not my main, before that is mentioned.)

20m in 6 months is absolutely viable - Currently sitting on 45m and do you know what I spend it on?






Nothing.



Not a thing.
I have a mansion -that ate 50m of my savings and I furnished it for free. I have all crafts at 70 which makes it easier, but I hardly play; maybe an hour or so every night.

If you want to make the argument that new players have it rough and will be forced to buy gil, that's not true at all. I've levelled several alts on different servers from scratch with no help from my main, and the amount of gil that comes in just doing basic ingame tasks is pretty substantial.
If you're wasting 100s of millions on getting a gearset, you're doing it wrong.

How long did it take for you to level all your crafters and how much money across all 7 did it cost in total, if that exceeds what a average player can make in the entire story line and
60 days of casual saving, that is the exact problem I am talking about. It cost time to level all the crafters to get to the point of "I dont spend gil on anything" at 2 hours a night 4 days a week that's literally like a year minimum.