Healers can't outdamage competent tanks

[DawnSolaria]

This was already obvious, Titania and Innocence had like 0 healing requirements.
Not gonna lie, I kinda wish it was possible for a WHM to do tank level dmg, but this is fine. Healers are a lot closer in raid contribution.

Now we wait till SE keeps buffing AST and SCH only until everything is ruined.

Boo hoo SE tried balancing so my class is ruined. Make up your mind, do you want a consistent performance from all healers or another balance rollercoaster?

[Crushnight]

Bit early for this don't you think?

I hardly think the top tier healers have everything planned out optimally yet just 3 days after release you would need to give it a fair bit of time,yes i am moving the goalpost it needed to be moved to get more accurate data when both tanks and healers can play optimally not just tanks.

[Typhoria]

As it currently stands on E1S using averages, the lowest DPS (DNC) deals ~56-57% more damage than the highest Tank (GNB). The highest DPS (MNK) deals ~75-76% more damage than the highest Tank.

The percentage used shows how much the Tank would need to gain to be equal. Using the inverse of that, GNB deals ~36% less than DNC and ~43% of monk.

The lowest tank (DRK) deals ~24-25% more damage than the highest Healer (WHM) and ~33-34% higher than the lowest Healer (AST).

Using the same as before, WHM deals ~19-20% less damage than DRK and AST deals ~25% less.

This is at the 75th percentile using rDPS.

DPS role damage is expected to be much higher than Tank damage, so that difference is reasonable.

Healer damage being that close to Tank damage is quite alarming, and the gap will shrink more with better gear and improved group mechanics.

Healers get to triple dip from group gear improvements. Less group damage taken, larger health pool buffer, and increased self raw healing and damage. Tanks only get a damage increase based only on their gear.

[Risvertasashi]

Healer damage being that close to Tank damage is quite alarming, and the gap will shrink more with better gear and improved group mechanics.

It's an interesting stance. Do most people feel healer damage should be far below tanks, then?

But if you do think healer DPS should be below a certain point, it becomes difficult for healers to complete solo duties. It already takes healers far longer to do most of them.

If you think this is because of padding, it isn't. Note that the list is sorted by raid dps and not personal dps. A white mage purely doing their dps rotation properly without having to gcd heal will do more damage than even the best of tanks. I don't see how this can be disputed at all.

In Stormblood, White Mage also had the highest striking dummy DPS. It was never able to realize this potential inside a raid environment, however.

[Gaethan_Tessula]

Boo hoo SE tried balancing so my class is ruined. Make up your mind, do you want a consistent performance from all healers or another balance rollercoaster?

I want healers to be both fun and relatively close in terms of balance. I'll take the former if I only have to choose one; I dealt with my RDM main in FF11 being undesirable post 99-era for a LONG time because the kit and playloop was still fun even if it was objectively worse at all-rounding than BLU and worse at CC and debuffs than GEO.

And I don't trust Square Enix to provide me with EITHER fun or balance based on prior pattern, unless it involves achieving balance by sucking out most of the fun.

Give me more improvements for every healer (preferably new moves, not "unga bunga, muh potency"), and if that powercreeps all the healers, improve all the tanks too. And if that powercreeps on the DPS, improve them too. The only sector I want to see nerfs in on healers is actually on their HEALING, because healing being too strong for the content is the root of why we focus so heavily on what else the job brings.

[Typhoria]

It's an interesting stance. Do most people feel healer damage should be far below tanks, then?

But if you do think healer DPS should be below a certain point, it becomes difficult for healers to complete solo duties. It already takes healers far longer to do most of them.

The damage itself isn't the concern, but moreso the conditions associated with it.

The skill floor and ceiling for healer DPS is inexistent. DoT + oGCD damage into spam cast damage ability repeat.

Healers have minimal to no risk while using their damage spells. While potency isn't too comparable, look at Scholar Biolysis it's a 60 potency instant DoT for 400 MP. Summoner Bio is 40 potency DoT for 600 MP and Miasma III is 40 + 40 potency DoT for 500 MP with a 2.5sec cast.
Broil III is an unconditional 280 potency, while a Summoner has to have both Bio and Miasma for Ruin III to have 200 potency.

Just did a test where my melded 449 Gunbreaker used Blasting Zone, 800 potency 30s CD, with Titania weapon. The damage was 17k. Swapped to my unmelded 420 White Mage, with 418 weapon from last dungeon, used Assize, 400 potency AoE damage + Heal + 5% MP regain 45s CD, for 17.5k on each target hit.

It's just a bit silly when a Healer can do those kinds of numbers without it being complicated or being very taxing on their resources. Meanwhile, the only DPS function that separates Tanks from actual melee DPS jobs are positionals.

[Risvertasashi]

The skill floor and ceiling for healer DPS is inexistent. DoT + oGCD damage into spam cast damage ability repeat.

There is a skill gap when you're fighting something that's not a striking dummy or has close to no outgoing damage. What separates the good/mediocre/bad is not the complexity of the rotation, but the ability to balance DPS with healing and manage your GCDs.

That said, healers already do less than half the damage of top DPS. So, exactly how little do you think they should do? 25%? Even less? You keep nerfing healer DPS and, again, you run into problems where healers would have difficulty doing solo duties (When it's already tedious and time consuming on some of them).

Lastly, tanks have it a lot easier than melee DPS. They're punished much less for eating avoidable damage, and have more tools to compensate should it happen. And now they even have gap closers too. Enmity has become gutted and braindead too, so there's no management aspect to tanks a la healers having to choose between healing and DPS.

[Typhoria]

There is a skill gap when you're fighting something that's not a striking dummy or has close to no outgoing damage. What separates the good/mediocre/bad is not the complexity of the rotation, but the ability to balance DPS with healing and manage your GCDs.

That said, healers already do less than half the damage of top DPS. So, exactly how little do you think they should do? 25%? Even less? You keep nerfing healer DPS and, again, you run into problems where healers would have difficulty doing solo duties (When it's already tedious and time consuming on some of them).

Lastly, tanks have it a lot easier than melee DPS. They're punished much less for eating avoidable damage, and have more tools to compensate should it happen. And now they even have gap closers too. Enmity has become gutted and braindead too, so there's no management aspect to tanks a la healers having to choose between healing and DPS.

I didn't say they should reduce the damage. Don't quote one part if you are going to willfully ignore a part so you can strawman.

The damage itself isn't the concern, but moreso the conditions associated with it.

Healers are the only job that has increased damage when the group makes less errors. There are no surprises in fights when everyone is properly playing.

Healer damage abilities aren't engaging, there is no way to improve when there is downtime. The idea of Cleric Stance, before it was changed and later removed, was a good start to actually engage Healers while DPSing.

[Miziliti]

Let's see...

To tank, you need to hit mob.

To heal, you need to cast healing spell and not damage spell; which means you stopped dpsing.

Mind blown.

Is it too logical to think that tank should should always deal higher damage than healer?

[DJMau]

And I don't trust Square Enix to provide me with EITHER fun or balance based on prior pattern, unless it involves achieving balance by sucking out most of the fun.

Flubs and all I'd still trust them over the legion of half baked forum 'experts' running around here.