Perma shelved my DRK: No role, no idenity, no lore, no worthwhile skills, no fun

[Arsthan]

snip

I like those ideas, though a attack speed buff on BW would be still nice but I digress.

The main thing about your changes that interests me is the EoS/FoS change. That would actually give us Darkside management, which I'm totally up for. They could also achieve a similar thing with adding a new skills that either is used only to get/increase Darkside or meant purely for damage with no Darkside buff attached to it. Either way, the result is technically the same. I really like this and hope they'd do it.

[Nalien]

I both love and hate the Dark Arts rework.

The way we gain it now is nice, better than the old oGCD spam anyway. Everything else about it? Lackluster... Don't get me wrong, the whole breaking TBN and throwing out Edge of Shadow is exactly what I like about Samurai with Third Eye and Hissatsu: Seigan, but Dark Arts now... It's just boring...

For starters, it's essentially does nothing for you. You spend 3,000MP on TBN to save spending 3,000MP on Edge of Shadow... That's done nothing for me, I could just use Edge of Shadow to begin with... All this does is help my healer, which yes is a good thing, but it's not really satisfying for me personally... No more so than popping Rampart...

What I'd like to see is a return to the old Dark Arts effect. If it boosted potency as well? Then it's great. Could go for the same satisfying feeling as Inner Release with a Crit/DH modifier applies instead, although really lets not keep copying Warrior...

Even if you did that though, there's still a problem IMO, and that's what you spend Dark Arts on... Edge of Shadow, and AoEdge of Shadow. I'd prefer to see a return to how it used to be... Bring back Dark Arts Carve and Split, bring back Dark Arts Soul Eater, bring back Abyssal Drain... Perhaps not with the static potency increase, I'd prefer to see more additions made to their effect while under Dark Arts, and always have since Heavensward though sadly that never manifested. Basically I want to think what I spend Dark Arts on when I get it... Not just "Here's another Edge of Shadow, even though Darkside is basically never at risk of falling off...", that's just boring...

Now Delirium... Ugh... This is honestly a pathetic skill at this point... It's a lame Inner Release clone, and not a "We are Gods!" level of cloning, a "May God have mercy on our souls for creating this abomination..." level of cloning... Inner Release works because the Crit/DH makes Fell Cleave spam incredibly satisfying to do. Delirium does none of this... Bloodspiller spam is not satisfying to do, it's just there... By the same token, Paladins Requiescat spam phase isn't particularly satisfying, but at least they get a fancy finisher for it.. Christ, Delirium doesn't even net you enough MP for an additional Edge of Shadow...

That brings me to another point, actually... Dark Knight and MP... I get why Unmend, Unleash, and Abyssal Drain no longer cost MP... Still don't like it though... And the change to Blood Weapon no longer gaining MP from abilities? I liked lining it up with abilities to get the maximum amount of MP out of it... And Quietus... Oh Quietus... It was unbelievably satisfying to gain so much MP out of large pulls... Now it's nothing, except under Delirium where it's 500MP per Quietus, not per enemy hit... Same deal with Blood Weapon... Dropping Grit for Blood Weapon on large pulls was my favorite thing about this Job... A single Quietus off TBN, Blood Weapon and Quietus stacking and giving you basically infinite MP and building your gauge incredibly quickly (along with Salted Earth), spamming Quietus in that scenario was awesome, largely because you worked for it. Spamming it under Delirium? Zzz.

Honestly I'd prefer to go back to Stormblood Delirium... 50 Blood gauge for 3,000MP and extending the duration of Blood Weapon. Actually, throw in Darker Arts while we're at it... Rather than the current 10 seconds of Bloodspiller spam, give me 10 seconds of Dark Arts not being used up... Probably remove the Dark Arts = Free Edge of Shadow effect completely and adjust our MP costs accordingly... Don't want it shifting from Bloodspiller spam to Edge of Shadow spam... If it's still needed, you can instead have the TBN = a free Edge of Shadow function by having TBN restore MP when broken as well as Dark Arts, rather than Dark Arts having the 0 cost function.

[Xenosan]

Dark Arts has really no point in existing atm. TBN could just refund it's MP cost on shield pop (and expiration, preferably). Would be nice if that GUI/DA served another purpose.

I'm on the side of the fence that TBN should be and remain DPS neutral. The condition to change my mind on that would require TBN not being usable on other party members, ie the utility support feature of TBN must be moved to another action, DRK can only use TBN on themself.

Because otherwise the consequence of a DPS gain on TBN pop would be DRK players prioritizing essentially stoneskin spamming (and encouraging raid takes unnecessary damage to help them pop)

Has nothing to do with raising ceiling on the job like others say is the concern or fairness of balance with other tanks. For me its simply the playstyle consequence. That sort of feature does not feel appropriate for tank play experience. A healer, maybe. But even that is if-y.

And I say that as someone who really wants to see more counter-attack features added, not removed (the trend), from XIV.

[Reynhart]

Because otherwise the consequence of a DPS gain on TBN pop would be DRK players prioritizing essentially stoneskin spamming (and encouraging raid takes unnecessary damage to help them pop)

And then they'll die because they don't have enough MP to use TBN when mitigation is actually required.

[Duskane]

Honestly I think it would have been great if Dark had mage ballad like game play

Scourge\salted earth share recast so can't stack and have chance to proc carve and split or abysmal drain
Much better spiritual successor to low blow reprisal proc era to TBN+ blood spiller in storm blood

[Xan_Kriegor]

Agreed. In my opinion, not having darkside management is one of the biggest design issues that DRK has.

I think that a similar way to solve It would be creating a blood spender action with less damage/blood than bloodspiller but with the additional effect to grant darkside effect.

[Reynhart]

Agreed. In my opinion, not having darkside management is one of the biggest design issues that DRK has.

For me, either you make Darkside harder to maitain (Edge/Flood cost more, MP regen is lower or you extend for less time) or, you give DRK another MP spender, and you'd have to judge if you have the MP to spare while still being able to reapply Darkside.

[Absimiliard]

I don't know if you guys have noticed this or not, but uh... SE has been making the classes more approachable on purpose. Making them readily accessible to everyone is better business design overall. We're probably never getting any sort of complexity added back to DRK. Instead, we need to focus on getting its weaknesses shored up a bit. I.e. Living Dead being garbage and TBN's scaling being so good that you eventually reach a point that even tankbusters can't pop it.

[Duskane]

I don't know if you guys have noticed this or not, but uh... SE has been making the classes more approachable on purpose. Making them readily accessible to everyone is better business design overall. We're probably never getting any sort of complexity added back to DRK. Instead, we need to focus on getting its weaknesses shored up a bit. I.e. Living Dead being garbage and TBN's scaling being so good that you eventually reach a point that even tankbusters can't pop it.

well i think more people want some identity back or at least the speed
Delerium being IR is just such a low blow

[Reynhart]

Making them readily accessible to everyone is better business design overall.

Making all of them close to breaindead is, IMO, a bad move because your hardcore players don't have a class that fit their need anymore.
It's the same move as replacing Savage by a few more expert dungeons.