Regarding FINAL FANTASY XIV Steam Version: EXTREMELY ANGRY

[Eli85]

You, not S-E, decided to play Final Fantasy XIV on Steam. When you made that decision, you agreed to Steam's Terms of Service (ToS). The ToS allows them, S-E, or both to make a change like this.


You can be angry all you want, but remember, when you chose to play on Steam's platform, you consented to this.

[ElazulHP]

You, not S-E, decided to play Final Fantasy XIV on Steam. When you made that decision, you agreed to Steam's Terms of Service (ToS). The ToS allows them, S-E, or both to make a change like this.


You can be angry all you want, but remember, when you chose to play on Steam's platform, you consented to this.

A wild white knight appears...

...but seriously, them making the mistake of buying the game on Steam shouldn't mean they get bent over due to poor policy decisions made by Square. Also, what about those of us that purchased the game during ARR? The decision to lock people into Steam wasn't made until HW released. It's a really bad decision to go forward with this and I know I will be unsubscribing for sure if this impacts me negatively in any way shape or form and we're not given the option to convert our licenses or buy non-steam PC licenses. Because right now we can't even just go buy a non-Steam license and apply it to our account. We would have to abandon our 5 year old characters. That isn't going to happen. I'd rather quit the game entirely first.

EDIT: Furthermore, ESO did this as well in the past. I remember I was one of the ones impacted. Unable to play for days or weeks at a time. Anytime the Steam authentication servers died, you couldn't play. Give you three guess why I don't play that game anymore and the first two don't count.

[Eli85]

A wild white knight appears...

...but seriously, them making the mistake of buying the game on Steam shouldn't mean they get bent over due to poor policy decisions made by Square. Also, what about those of us that purchased the game during ARR? The decision to lock people into Steam wasn't made until HW released. It's a really bad decision to go forward with this and I know I will be unsubscribing for sure if this impacts me negatively in any way shape or form and we're not given the option to convert our licenses or buy non-PC licenses. Because right now we can't even just go buy a non-Steam license and apply it to our account. We would have to abandon our 5 year old characters. That isn't going to happen. I'd rather quit the game entirely first.

EDIT: Furthermore, ESO did this as well in the past. I remember I was one of the ones impacted. Unable to play for days or weeks at a time. Anytime the Steam authentication servers died, you couldn't play. Give you three guess why I don't play that game anymore and the first two don't count.

White knighting? No. More just understanding what companies are allowed to do, under their terms of service, which you agree to when you purchase a game from them (in this case, Steam). The only way you have an argument is a) there is no provision in the ToS for this; or b) there is no ToS. Neither A or B is true, so railing against this decision is just ignorance.

[Paladinleeds]

White knighting? No. More just understanding what companies are allowed to do, under their terms of service, which you agree to when you purchase a game from them (in this case, Steam). The only way you have an argument is a) there is no provision in the ToS for this; or b) there is no ToS. Neither A or B is true, so railing against this decision is just ignorance.

And there may be parts of the TOS that is illegal by law in certain countries. I can make a TOS of whatever I want, but if parts of the TOS go against laws in certain countries, said parts of the TOS can't be upheld in those countries. And there may be legal ramifications for the lock in with no prior communication until after a lot of people had bought it. Could potentially even result in a class action.

[Fawkes]

The only way you have an argument is a) there is no provision in the ToS for this; or b) there is no ToS. Neither A or B is true, so railing against this decision is just ignorance.

Just because the ToS says they can do something doesn't mean you can't make a valid argument against it. The ToS says they can delete your character whenever they want, but if they did you'd still be plenty mad.

[worldofneil]

You can be angry all you want, but remember, when you chose to play on Steam's platform, you consented to this.

It's not anything to do with Steam though. The Steam Subscriber Agreement still says:

To make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet.

Back in March SE originally said "In order to align even more closely with Steam policies...". I then asked Steam about it and they had no knowledge of what was going on. After I posted that information in the big thread Square Enix quietly updated the post to the current "As part of our fraud prevention measures..."

Steam aren't enforcing this change, Square Enix are.

So you can say it's our own fault for buying it on Steam, but if Steam didn't require us to run their client when we bought the game and they still don't require it now... how are we not supposed to be upset that SE is selectively penalising users who bought it on that platform?

[ZJyn]

It's not anything to do with Steam though. The Steam Subscriber Agreement still says:



Back in March SE originally said "In order to align even more closely with Steam policies...". I then asked Steam about it and they had no knowledge of what was going on. After I posted that information in the big thread Square Enix quietly updated the post to the current "As part of our fraud prevention measures..."

Steam aren't enforcing this change, Square Enix are.

So you can say it's our own fault for buying it on Steam, but if Steam didn't require us to run their client when we bought the game and they still don't require it now... how are we not supposed to be upset that SE is selectively penalising users who bought it on that platform?

I don't believe this is true, because it would be completely counter to Square Enix's ability to make as much money off their expansion sales and subscription sales as they possibly could.

Here's the reality: By doing this, Valve gets to start forcing collection of its 30% cut on not just expansion sales, but subscription fees. A friend of mine who's account was through Steam, but had been paying for his sub through Square, recently returned and found that Valve is now requiring him to pay his subscription through Steam Wallet, not Square's Mog Station.

Translation? Steam gets a cut.

If what you say is true, that would be Square pushing this through to only lose 30% of all revenues on subs for any copy sold through Steam. That would be the most blundering business move ever, and I doubt they're that stupid. If anything, they'd want to keep that for themselves.

This is what happens when you have a Marketplace Monopoly like Valve has; they can pull off anti-consumer moves like this and get away with it. I'd agree with the notion that if things go sideways, there should at least be an option to purchase a second license through SE itself.

[worldofneil]

I don't believe this is true

You can literally read it in their statement on the Lodestone/launcher:

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...d25d2751a11b35

The very first line is "As part of our fraud prevention measures..."

A friend of mine who's account was through Steam, but had been paying for his sub through Square, recently returned and found that Valve is now requiring him to pay his subscription through Steam Wallet, not Square's Mog Station.

Sorry, but that is just not true. In five years I have never had to pay via Steam Wallet. It's actually the only good thing about being on Steam as you get all the usual payment options (credit card, time card code, etc.) as well as the additional option of Steam Wallet.

I'd agree with the notion that if things go sideways, there should at least be an option to purchase a second license through SE itself.

This part we do agree on!

[Lozza]

You can literally read it in their statement on the Lodestone/launcher:

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...d25d2751a11b35

The very first line is "As part of our fraud prevention measures..."



Sorry, but that is just not true. In five years I have never had to pay via Steam Wallet. It's actually the only good thing about being on Steam as you get all the usual payment options (credit card, time card code, etc.) as well as the additional option of Steam Wallet.



This part we do agree on!

When I went to buy a name change on the mog station the other day it was pushy about wanting me to use the steam wallet. It was still possible to pay via credit card, but it really made me jump through hoops to select that option. I am rather worried that the change on the 29th will lock out other options of payment.

[worldofneil]

When I went to buy a name change on the mog station the other day it was pushy about wanting me to use the steam wallet. It was still possible to pay via credit card, but it really made me jump through hoops to select that option.

I think it might actually be down to what country you live in possibly. For me in the UK just trying it I get:



Sorry, not sure what to suggest.