Nin rework suggestion

[Duskane]

I don't main Ninja, though my friend does, and even I can tell this is not great. The Mudras, latency aside, aren't really an issue well except Hyoron, but meh. The issues are with, TenChiJin, Bunshin, and Trick Attack. Simple potency buffs, or ease of access for some skills wont fix the underlining issue.

Mudra's are 100% a issue atm especially when expected to use 2 step mudras back to back within a trick window

Mudra's takes a fast pace Job and hit the breaks every 20 seconds

They are just terrible design

[Hanayumi]

I kinda like how mudras are, if you want a fast pace melee just play monk... As for changes just nerf trick attack to hell, like 5% for 10-15 secs then buff overall damage of everything else. One of the reasons devs left it like this is because they want people to try out other jobs rather than the usual meta.

[Eloah]

Mudra's are 100% a issue atm especially when expected to use 2 step mudras back to back within a trick window

Mudra's takes a fast pace Job and hit the breaks every 20 seconds

They are just terrible design

They are not terrible design, the only "main" issue they have is latency, which can be rectified on both ends. They are on equal footing with a Dancer's dances, specifically Standard Step. Only TenChiJin really has an issue and that is the loss of the ability if you move. A lockout system similar to the dances would fix that.

Mudras are meant to act as a multifaceted replacement for a normal GCD skill, that can be weaved. How the weaving works especially now, I can't say, because I don't play it often enough, but these are the insights I've gotten from my friend who mains it. Additionally, getting 2 Ninjutsu in a Trick Attack window shouldn't be an issue, barring latency of course. Let's see from what I remember from Stormblood. You should be able to get in Shadowfang, Dream within a Dream, the Aeolian Edge combo, using Duality on Aeolian Edge, and the two Ninjutsu, both Raiton. That's providing you have Huton up and don't spam Trick Attack the second it's available. It was definitely tight, but it all fit. Sorta like old school Wildfire, lol.

But I don't want to get into a debate. As I've said I don't play Ninja enough to really add too much to the discussion, especially now considering, I haven't really touched it.

[Vendalwind]

I actually thought OP post was clear enough to be understandable...
ANYWAYS before any direct buffs these are the indirect things I would hope to see changed/implemented

Removing the immobility lock on TCJ would be massive negating a potential 2000+ loss for bad timing.
Removing Bunny Mudra and giving us DNC style allowing us to continue our jutsu as if the miss mudra hadnt happened would save us from server tick heavily without any actual dmg buffs, it would just remove potential loss.
Making Hyosho on Fuma, and making raiton unique and/or a weak long duration dot would be a huge potency boon due to the removal of a lot of clipping. + open up a SkS build potentially.
Making Meisui a flat gain or tied to something other than our suiton would make planning ahead literally 120seconds no longer as big an issue.
Cutting the duration of bunshin to 8 so it only lasted one full combo, but granting it the teased effect in ShB would be a massive potency buff (instead of this 133 per hit thing).

[Gun-Cat]

Cutting the duration of bunshin to 8 so it only lasted one full combo, but granting it the teased effect in ShB would be a massive potency buff (instead of this 133 per hit thing).

Having things on a timer will always result in "Hey, if you get it right at the server tick and some you can get 1 more gcd!". Just have it mimic the next X weaponskills you are using it much more stable solution.

[Vendalwind]

Having things on a timer will always result in "Hey, if you get it right at the server tick and some you can get 1 more gcd!". Just have it mimic the next X weaponskills you are using it much more stable solution.

That is an even better idea. 3 would be great cause then a perfect could do aeolian and finish with Shadowfang and mimiced dot. a non perfect could finish out any standard 3 part combo. only sad part tho is it owuld have less interplay then with SkS

[IBLazORI]

I don't main Ninja, though my friend does, and even I can tell this is not great. The Mudras, latency aside, aren't really an issue well except Hyoron, but meh. The issues are with, TenChiJin, Bunshin, and Trick Attack. Simple potency buffs, or ease of access for some skills wont fix the underlining issue.

Mudras are one of top complaints due to clipping of latency. The only reason we have multiple button presses is merely for the "coolness" of mudras.

I do agree that TCJ, bunshin, trick is also another part of the complaints.
Potency buffs will help ninja since that is the number 1 complaint right now, low pDPS.

[Aaramis]

I really like some of the ideas in this thread, so I'll echo some of them here:

- make Goka and Hyosho straight upgrades at 76+ from Hyoton and Katon. No Kassatsu required. Same as many other jobs who simply had old skills replaced with their new upgrades. Simple, easy fix.
Requiring 4 button presses (Kassatsu, 2 mudra, then your Ninjutsu key) for mediocre damage is downright silly.
- revert Kassatsu back to what it was pre-5.0, allowing us to get that burst dps when we need it. If I'm standing back throwing fireballs or shurikens (and not building ninki by meleeing), I should be able to justify all those button presses with a guaranteed critical / direct hit.
- change Meisui to a simple Ninki boost. No requirements. Works for SAMs just fine, don't see why NIN can't have that too.
- up our AoE rotation somewhat. 120 + 140 is absolutely horrible. Even a tank such as PLD has better (120 -> 220 combo). The only way I can justify my AoE dps is if I have Doton ticking, and I'm using Bunshin with my Death Blossom -> Hakke spam so that I can throw out several Hellfrogs too. Oh, and using up my 2 x Goka AoE. That's a LOT of stuff going on just to justify ok AoE dps.

That's pretty much a *needed* fix, I would say.

My wishlist would also change Trick Attack to 5% raidwide dps increase, down from 10%, but allow it to be used outside of Hide / Suiton requirements. Hide and Suiton would then allow a guaranteed critical hit if used in conjunction with Trick Attack.
And I'd boost Bunshin back to what we saw pre-release.
Can't see that happening, though, but would love to see it.

[Eloah]

Mudras are one of top complaints due to clipping of latency. The only reason we have multiple button presses is merely for the "coolness" of mudras.

I do agree that TCJ, bunshin, trick is also another part of the complaints.
Potency buffs will help ninja since that is the number 1 complaint right now, low pDPS.

That's just it though, the only issue with mudras is latency, which is an issue all skills have. Granted, it is a concern, but it's similar to the animation lock on jumps, there is only so much that can be done. Plus latency is an issue that can be adjusted on both sides. Players are usually able to adjust to their latency since it effects the entire game. I am not saying Mudras couldnt use an adjustment, but the system itself is fine. The main suggestion I can give is a gauge like DNC were you can see what mudra registered.

Hmm... I think I have an idea, but I need to write it down.

[IBLazORI]

Looks like they are thinking about reducing the amount of buttons required to perform mudras.
I knew this was one of the main reasons.