It is time to get rid of them SE...

[Gallus]

And if you don't want to play with pets you have plenty of other DPS and healer jobs to choose from. Don't take away the only aspect of the only jobs that focus on soemthign different. Jobs are already becoming too generic, especially tanks and healers. That's the most pointless thing to do in a game where being able to change jobs is a core feature.

I really don't know why they're trying to make every job good at everything. In a game where you can freely change jobs it's fine to make content where certain jobs excel over others in that specific circumstance (as long as you don't make it so one job excels at all content over others) and expect your players to change their jobs to match. For endgame leaders I think it's acceptable to encourage (but not force) people to have multiple jobs so they can change depending on the content you're about to do as long as you give them priority on gear for jobs they consider to be their main. I think SE is making a big mistake making everything generic. Taking away the only pet job instead of fixing the pets would be an even bigger one.

What are you rambling about I never said to turn SMN into a generic job or whatever. All I'm doing is banging my head onto the wall right now trying to understand why you want to go around with this:



when they could focus on these:

[Dyvid]

I for once would like for a real pet class to exist that people who want a pet class can go to, so that FF14 summoner can get rid of egis and continue on his route to be much more a SMN the likes of other final fantasys. But with tweaks to adapt it to an MMO system, like Bahamut and Phoenix were set up.
There is a whole fantasy ideal with summoners in final fantasy (for instance, ff9 is what pops in mind), and because here it's a mmo they turned it into a pet class and kinda ruined the fantasy. It was ok before the Demis, but now that they shown we can have REAL summons adapted to an MMO, I think it's time to get rid of the "by default" system.

I wish they'd do an ACTUAL pet class fully axed on pets and pets alone (beast master ?) to carry on the classic pet job from MMOs and not force SMN to do it.

Problem is though I'm not sure the combat design would allow for this old school approach of Pet Design. Would the player have to stand still while ordering pets to attack? How could the pet dodge AoE and other mechanics of combat? Really imagine placing a old school MMO pet job in the lastest trials like Dying Gasp, Titania EX and Innocence EX.

[Saefinn]

What are you rambling about I never said to turn SMN into a generic job or whatever. All I'm doing is banging my head onto the wall right now trying to understand why you want to go around with this:

Whilst no you're not saying make them generic, but you are asking them to remove one core aspect of the job. If you meant just on an aesthetic level, you could have just said that. But your previous comment was about removing them because they don't work and that they've allegedly tried to make them work (when they haven't) so they might as well get rid of them.

Even then as I don't want you to have a concussion, I understand where there are attachments to the egis and can give some reasons:

- Mechanically they work differently to Demis. Demis come in, do their thing for a bit and go. Egis are around for the full fight, they DPS separate from you, slightly spread enmity. Ifrit could stun, Garuda could extend the duration of your DoTs, both Titan and Ifrit could shield. Titan was a psuedo-tank for soloing. Even useful in tankless deep dungeons. This is of course pre-ShB egis. Ifrit also could also add another DoT through its Enkindle and Garuda could give bit more of a burst with hers.

- Lore. This is something that matters to some players, especially the RP community, which is very strong in FFXIV. They've built whole lore and context behind egis overall, there's a lot behind them. By removing egis all together you end up invalidating it. There's another thread complaining how old quests no longer make sense with certain abilities removed. Imagine doing the level 58 and 60 job quests but Dreadwyrm trance and Death Flare are no longer a thing, it messes with continuity. Fair enough none of that may matter to you, but there are people who're quite deep into this sort of thing.

- Some find Demis to be obstructive or too big (I don't, but it is a complaint I've heard, but at least for them it's a temporary thing), whereas Egis were designed with that thought in mind. And the reasoning they gave back in the day for how they designed them.

- Some people just like having a pet that can follow them around and they can dish orders to. Many MMO's have such classes where you can do that. Demis are temporary, do their thing and leave.

[Dyvid]

What are you rambling about I never said to turn SMN into a generic job or whatever. All I'm doing is banging my head onto the wall right now trying to understand why you want to go around with this:

Titan Egi

when they could focus on these:

Demi-Phoenix / Demi-Bahamut

So basically form over function? Well SE did exactly as you asked and focused on Demis and how well is the job playing right now? Egis aren't in charge of controlling the rotational flow of combat; the is Demi design. The only aspect of Egis right now is dps, proc ruin IV and devotion. Where as Demi's Trance are the backbone of SMN rotation and the guide to line everything else upon. So yea, at this point I think SE needs to focus on function over form.

Oh and if anyone thinks I don't care about Egi's current state, feel free to head over to the Live Letter Q&A: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5098801

[Gallus]

So be forever stuck with egis because people want to RP is what you are telling me?

Also, I'm not sure what core we are supposedly removing here? What's the difference between having an egi or a demi by your side other than the latter not looking like an absolute joke? Demis attack whenever you attack and whatever you attack at the same time, have you ever seen Ifrit-Egi in the add phase of Lakshmi EX? Now that's some level of utter garbage right there. Pray so that they don't release similar stuff to that.
Not only Demis feel a lot better gameplay wise, they are cooler design wise, so yeah, if this class is ultimately dragged by the "but I want to have a cute adorable egi at my side" bunch of people, then all I can say it's going to be a real shame. But hey, whatever, at the end of the day, if that's what people really want, so be it, majority decides.

[Gallus]

So basically form over function? Well SE did exactly as you asked and focused on Demis and how well is the job playing right now?

People asked for cooler summons, not for 18 50 potency OGCDs.

[Dyvid]

People asked for cooler summons, not for 18 50 potency OGCDs.

And SE gave us Demi-Phoenix coupled with a new Trance.

[Saefinn]

So be forever stuck with egis because people want to RP is what you are telling me?

Gotcha, so you pick one item off the list and suggest it's my whole argument.

Also, I'm not sure what core we are supposedly removing here? What's the difference between having an egi or a demi by your side other than the latter not looking like an absolute joke?

You seemingly skimmed over what I suggested as reasons why some people still like egis. Functionally egis and demis are different and I've already explained how. Well, they were more so before the ShB changes, less so now, but that would tie in with my initial comment about fixing them instead of deleting them.

Not only Demis feel a lot better gameplay wise, they are cooler design wise

I mean, such things are always a matter of opinion. So it's not so ludicrous that there are people who see it differently. Dismissing it as "well if that's what you want go play Pokemon" is just daft. Especially as you're saying this in favour of a blue Charizard and a Moltres. And also egis were here first, so the old "if you don't like it go somewhere else" mentality simply doesn't work.

But I am speaking as somebody who likes both.

But honestly, I think if it is just an aesthetics issue, then SE could resolve that through expanding the egi glamour system. Then everybody wins. They already solved the scaling issue of demis. They gave BRD a system for them to live out their job fantasy, it'd be no harm for them to do that to summoners too. The pay off could also be, you could have your Phoenix permanently out if you chose to and it does Ifrit moves. I didn't like the look of Garuda, but I like the look of Ifrit, my Garuda egi is a Carbuncle, but Ifrit isn't.

[Gallus]

And SE gave us Demi-Phoenix coupled with a new Trance.

Along with a massive bloat of OGCDs, half of them being locked when You have Demis out. Nobody asked for this. Which is why I'm saying remove the silly egis and the assaults, they are ugly and inconvenient.

1 - We can't cast devotion, egi assaults or enkindle when we have demis out. Terrible.
2 - The Egis stick to attacking whatever they attack at that moment, switching targets is awful, especially with Ifrit Egi switching targets on mobs that are far from each other.
3 - They are ugly as hell.

Why do you insist on wanting to keep something that is inconvenient gameplay wise and looks terrible asthetically (okay, subjective I guess...lol)?

[Gallus]

You seemingly skimmed over what I suggested as reasons why some people still like egis. Functionally egis and demis are different and I've already explained how. Well, they were more so before the ShB changes, less so now, but that would tie in with my initial comment about fixing them instead of deleting them.

Lore? We can summon both bahamut and phoenix, and the latter is stronger. RIP lore.