Perma shelved my DRK: No role, no idenity, no lore, no worthwhile skills, no fun

[Awful]

Man, I really, really hate when people say things like this (I'm talking about your final sentence in particular). How is there not actual conversation going on? Did you even read through this post? Or did you just take a glance at the title alone and write this? Most people who are upset with DRK aren't merely "just complaining", they ARE trying to start actual conversations about DRK by saying exactly what they don't like about it, why they don't like it, and sometimes even throwing out suggestions on what can be done to rectify these things. I mean for goodness sake, OP himself even did this, so stop trying to make it sound like people are just baselessly complaining for the sake of complaining, because you couldn't more wrong about that.

Nothing is perfect, if things are going to get better, then there needs to be people who bring attention to shortcomings and faults. It's actually ironic, because by you complaining about the people who are doing this, you're actually the one who's trying to prevent actual conversation from happening. It's actually you who has the baseless complaints that will literally accomplish absolutely nothing.

Have you not been around lately or something? The same people are complaining about DRK and how bad it is but yet they don't have anything to base it off of other than "it plays exactly like WAR". That's the only comments I've been seeing other than the posts that are like "it should be a blood beserker with dread spikes" or "it should sacrifice HP for XXX thing", it's the same thing over and over with no clear conciseness.

I play DRK actively it's my main, I love it, and even I have posted what needs to be changed because DRK isn't horrible and yet people come in here everyday saying how trash it is. Does it need tweaks? Yes, very minor tweaks, has it lost it's identity? No, the reason it's so out of whack is that no one knows what they want from DRK and that's why it suffers because people come in here complaining that it's bad and its gameplay has no redeeming factors.

So yes before you call me out I have been actively in the DRK threads, as a DRK main the only thing that needs to be changed is the MP gains, Dark Mind, Living Dead, other than that the class plays amazingly and I love how it plays, the people who come in here everyday saying it's Inner Release WAR but budgeted yeah that's who I was referring to.

Edit: You also never took DRK into any meaningful content yet, only PLD so I'd really like it if you'd actually take DRK into some EX trials or Eden for that matter before you even post it's hard to take you seriously if you're an 80 DRK but literally haven't done anything.

[shao32]

snip

edge and flood are simple shinten/kyuten but despite i like DA i don't have any specific problem with this new skills, my problem is when they removed complety DA mechanics instead to make it as a CD more that add diverse defensive effects or meaby ofensive effects with a proper recast or adjust the rate with other MP expenders, i hate they choose to remove the entire mechanic for nothing.

the only problem i see with edge right now is the skill is the main problem of TBN now due it's bcs of edge TBN have such huge punishment. his use is extremly limited by the amount of resourced generated, there is no interesting about it at all since they just gimmic PLD gameplay of storage everything and trow it on TA, i will grant you a point if resource generation was higher but base you fun on TA it's lame for me, if you want to belive this is god send i wont stop you but be more realistic, edge/flood are much much more simple that DA by a mile.

the resume is DA offer much more interest gameplay and i consider his main problem was his spam you are forced to have make some didn't like the job and reduce the spam and keep a DRK mechanic that was his esence from HW should have been a thing instead of this, the removal of DA was complety unjustified when the main problem is to much DA, DA and edge/flood could coexist perfectly but they made a poor choice doing this and despite of my derp post i didn't want it to being removed.

you know i deserve the hit from that derp post, i grant you that, but is not what we get even if that post was legit to my opinion.

snip

DRK has lose all his original mechanics and gameplay flows except living dead, is that is not lose identy idk what you think it is except you belive identity is only animation and aesthetics with is just a fraction of they identity.

[Awful]

DRK has lose all his original mechanics and gameplay flows except living dead, is that is not lose identy idk what you think it is except you belive identity is only animation and aesthetics with is just a fraction of they identity.

And that's your opinion, if anything DRK lost the most from HW > SB where it became something lesser of itself DA spam,all of its old moves Low Blow, Dark Dance Reprisal were stripped away to the other tanks, to me SB DRK was clunky and unfun that's just my opinion on it I switched to WAR in Sigmascape but this iteration of ShB DRK I enjoy. I like how it plays, I like the QoL stuff that we got and it only needs minor tweaks and it'd make it better I just won't agree with you and I plan on raiding Eden Savage as a DRK.

[shao32]

And that's your opinion, if anything DRK lost the most from HW > SB where it became something lesser of itself DA spam,all of its old moves Low Blow, Dark Dance Reprisal were stripped away to the other tanks, to me SB DRK was clunky and unfun that's just my opinion on it I switched to WAR in Sigmascape but this iteration of ShB DRK I enjoy. I like how it plays, I like the QoL stuff that we got and it only needs minor tweaks and it'd make it better I just won't agree with you and I plan on raiding Eden Savage as a DRK.

im not agaisnt you opinion of what is fun for you or not, you are having fun with current DRK? it's pretty fine, but i consider the argument of DRK don't have a gameplay identity anymore pretty valid if we compared the job to his older versions thats all. if you consider DRK lose more on SB can be discuss but we obviously lose the rest this expansion instead of getting closer to HW as we asked and it's a pretty valid complaing since we can argue that we know or we don't know what we want for the job but if everyone (relative) says HW the best i consider that was a pretty clear course of action independent of the other feedback and a good excuse for reproach the devs for this rework that it's making all this drama that hasn't been see before.

[TheForce]

Oh man...where do I start lol.

So, first off, the fact that DRK plays too much like Warrior IS a bad thing and a valid complaint, what's the point of having an entirely different class if things feel too similar? Classes should have distinct identities. I've also seen MUCH more complaints and suggestions than what you're describing, but I'll tell you what: I'll give you the benefit and just assume that you haven't seen said posts.

Secondly, I'm not gonna argue with you about DRK itself, because it's obvious that you and I will just not see eye to eye on it. It's a waste of time. For example, the fact that you're really gonna sit here and say that DRK still has an identity and that it only needs "minor tweaks" is completely crazy to me. So, I just won't discuss it with you.
And okay, cool. I don't doubt that you're experienced with DRK. DRK was my main before this ShB nonsense, I put so many hours into it it's actually sad, lol. And I've put plenty of time into its atrocious ShB rework, so stop trying to make it seem like I don't know what I'm talking about.

And man...take a seat my friend. I'm not sure what the hell you're using to stalk me, but it doesn't work as well as you think. I have taken DRK through Inno Ex, and even taught some of my DRK friends Inno Ex. On top of that, I have 100+ clears of Suzaku Ex on DRK back when it was relevant content, as well a good amount of Seiryu clears back when it was relevant .You reallyy gotta stop trying to talk down to me like I'm some greenhorn or something. Who do you think you are man?

[Awful]

And man...take a seat my friend. I'm not sure what the hell you're using to stalk me, but it doesn't work as well as you think. I have taken DRK through Inno Ex, and even taught some of my DRK friends Inno Ex. On top of that, I have 100+ clears of Suzaku Ex on DRK back when it was relevant content, as well a good amount of Seiryu clears back when it was relevant .You reallyy gotta stop trying to talk down to me like I'm some greenhorn or something. Who do you think you are man?

Not stalking you but alright make those claims, I was gonna have an actual discussion with you but you came back with whatever this is so I'll just leave it at this, we are not gonna see eye to eye on this until something drastic changes people actually like how a class plays vs what others think shocker I know right? I've been playing DRK since HW I'm not saying I'm better I just have experience on it and people are really throwing this whole DRK thing out of context its making the forums a truly toxic place.

I'm just a DRK main that cares about the job, minor tweaks is what it needs with Dark Mind/Living Dead being modified that's my opinion and I'll stand by it just because you don't like what it is doesn't mean I can't enjoy it, people want DRK and its story to be retconned? Seriously that's how far people are going. I've already said what is need of changes but I guess I'll go over them with you:

-Living dead needs to be changed worse tank CD in the game atm make it 50% of your hp not 100%, it's a void of resources
- Mana gains should be 1000, they're 1000 in PvP so just make it for both, easy fix
- Dark Mind make it like RI/Heart of Stone that way it's useful for magic and physical because if you've noticed E4 is all physical and E3 the TB is physical even though it's a squirt gun
- TBN it's good for it's mitigation, horrible for its resource cost as no other tank uses its own DPS resources for defense

That's all it needs from my point of view, also no I don't think you're a greenhorn dunno why you're putting words in my mouth I just noticed you hadn't ran anything like Titania/Innoc EX or Eden, they're not hard but having a DRK that knows their class/optimized would have more merit but oh well.

I think I'll take a break from the forums and just keep playing DRK people like you are the reason why even if I post the gripes you immediately become hostile even though my statement wasn't directed at the people who make meaningful conversations because that's subjective to each person, but having the same people complain day in, day out really gets grating.

[YanderePrincess]

I don't get it. Why do the NORMAL people have to suffer loss of the job identity so some dum... eh.. mentaly challenged would play the job for AESTHETICKS??!

Liking a job for its aesthetics is not mentally challenged, and "mentally challenged" is an even more offensive way to say it than "dumb" because you're insulting people with legitimate disabilities on top of being a jerk. Take your ableism somewhere else. It has no place here.

[Adventica6]

You said what you don't like about DRK but you made ZERO effort to provide constructive criticism, what is your grand solution to fix DRK mr genius? "I don't like A, B, or C!! but I don't have a clue on how to improve it!"

[eagledorf]

Disapointed they also didn't rethink the Blood Gauge. IMO DRK did not need this widget in SB, and they still do not need it in ShB. Blood actions (LS BS Q) could just be procs or stacks like Bard Repertoire stacks, placed inside the DS widget.

That's pretty much every tank gauge. You could just let WAR stack up to 10 Wrath and put Sheltron+Intervention on a 2-stage shared cooldown like all the gap closers or True North are on and get rid of those gauges entirely too. I pretty sure GNB could also just have stacks. They just wanted tanks to feel included when DPS and WHM got shiny new gauges and I do appreciate that we weren't left out. At least now we can minimize the gauges down to just a bar so it doesn't take up too much space on the screen.

Actually, even a lot of DPS could probably get rid of the gauge, it's clear some jobs were designed for it (ex. DNC) and some it was just tacked on (ex. MNK).

[Danelo]

tl;dr my issue is with blood itself..

Okay, I see what you mean in that regard and for the most part agreed.

There's a million different things the devs could have done to lean into DRK having a burst window besides copying another class. It defeats the purpose of having different jobs, right? I feel like if the trend of DRK being a WAR clone, except one expansion behind, continues then we've already seen what we have to look forward to. I wouldn't be opposed to a blood combo or something other than current delirium. It lacks ingenuity, from my prospective, and I was hoping for more depth.