Perma shelved my DRK: No role, no idenity, no lore, no worthwhile skills, no fun

[Lyth]

...

You do realise that you spent the past year or so complaining that the Stormblood Dark Arts system was clunky and needed a rework, right?

...DRK need a rework of the entire dark arts system and being equally impacfull in a fight like the other 2 not make it more clunky and akward to use.

"There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it."

[Awful]

Why is this thread still going lol, its people who don't know DRK complaining about DRK and people who know DRK complaining about DRK.

It's the same people posting the same thing in every thread hopefully the patch notes will add some actual conversation instead of people just complaining about DRK 24/7.

[Reynhart]

You do realise that you spent the past year or so complaining that the Stormblood Dark Arts system was clunky and needed a rework, right?

And why asking for a change means that we should automatically be okay with something that feel worse ?

Remember "mobile BRD and its weak DPS" compared to "turret BRD and its high DPS" ?

I'd also like you to quote the many complains about "how Salted Earth is too powerful", "how abyssal drain needs to be an oGCD", "how MP regeneration is too high", "how we have too much combos to use" or "how we want to spam Bloodspiller like an Edgly WAR".

[MagiusNecros]

I'm sure things will get better next expansion. They won't.

Now if Warriors were complaining we'd see some stellar change in 2 months.

[shao32]

You do realise that you spent the past year or so complaining that the Stormblood Dark Arts system was clunky and needed a rework, right?



"There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it."

excuse me what? can you at least give me the link of that post lyth? mostly bcs i wanna see in what contest i say that if i say that and in what day bcs i remember perfectly complaing more about WAR status and his favoritism more that anything else since i was one that really enjoy SB DRK.

edit: never mind i find it my self:

Is there is something more boring than warrior? =P
Yet he is being played the most of all three tanks, because he is effective.
Tanks cant be complicated, their job is enough complex.
And DA is just an enchancment, nothing more. Increasing resources pool for drk will open up more options for different rotations, even dark passenger would be used in this case with DA.
I will say it all the way, drk needs more resources, it will affect the effeciency of mediocore players a lot, and as for better ones they will have to find a way to play around animation clip, i believe they will handle it, still they will gain a lot of additional dps.
Its not like drk has enough mana and blood to use frequently bloodspiller and other enchanted with da skills.

fun is relative, most WAR i know they love the job for his simplicity and fell cleaves with is ok even if is not for me, and i doubt it will reduce the skill gap betwen average and top DRKs, more like it will increase it, DRK need a rework of the entire dark arts system and being equally impacfull in a fight like the other 2 not make it more clunky and akward to use.

i just recheck the entire thread and i see in what context i say that and seems it was my poor english writting that make it sound like it wasn't i want to say, i was reply to this person that want to make DRK resource generation being bigger, and i was counter argument his overall argument and idk why i choice that words but i can ensure you that was never what i wanted for DA.

my bad for make a easily missunderstanding post and i apologize for my bad choice of words but reworking DA was never my point, it was ajust the rate and have more options and even increase the impact not removing it.

i spend the last hour searching all my post with DARK ARTS on it and in all of then i defend DA in a way or another and i claim is fun and unique system on others , but i was agree it have some kind of over use that make some don't like it. since when you lyth start using cherry picking tactics to make an argument? are you so boring and run out of arguments you spend you time doing this now? i consider you better that this.

2º edit: i almost forgeth, even if someone ask for a DA rework we didn't get that since DA has been complety removed from the game, the TBN mechanic of recover what you paid for it getting the name of dark arts it's not a rework, it's keep the name of the skill for the sake of keeping it in the game.

[Xenosan]

At that point, why didn't they simply increase the MP cost and potency of Dark Arts ?

You don't even really have to manage Darkside since your combo itself gives you plenty of MP to never let it fall.

That is more or less exactly what they've done, isn't it? I think BW uptime was in a really sweet spot last expanion once they reduced the Delirium recast. Wish they hadn't messed that up. I've got issues with DRK but they're not sourced from Edge/Flood.. More like everything else :P (if anything would be nice if Edge had a little more range though)

I don't know about them having better control over when they dump potency.. When timer says go bs spam, you do it, otherwise you hurt overall dps output by holding it for too long. That doesn't feel like a choice or control..

That's true, but I was speaking in terms of MP -> DPS, not the blood resource. Like I said I'm disapointed the blood gauge wasn't tuned.. PLD got their Oath gauge changed to a lvl 35 unlock (moving Sheltron to lvl35), I feel DRK needed some of that same treatment, move BS/Q to an earlier lvl: Unlock the Blood Gauge at a lower level, instead of it being juxtaposed atop a kit in which it doesn't marry very well with, and not doing so until a late lvl63.

To break the semblence to WAR: say DRK gets BS as early as lvl 8. All we do with BS/Q is insert it into our rotation (like we currently do, like WAR does with Beast/Cleave), but as DRK levels up DRK unlocks Job Traits that allow BS/Q to inherit the Combo Bonuses and Combo Priming of steps in the 1-2-3 and 1-2 (AOE) rotations. So progressively DRK stops inserting BS/Qs to the rotation like WAR and instead starts replacing WSs (closer to MNK or old HW Delirium getting swapped out for DA+Souleater). Could even have BS/Q animation change on each step old Scourge, Tar Pit, etc

PLD and DRK could have their Blood/Oath gauges adjusted such that instead of going from 0-100, they only go from 0-50. Once they hit 50 a charge is added to the widget, as many as 5 (they may need to decay over time). I think that would be a more appropriate meter for each.

tl;dr my issue with Delirium is an issue with Blood itself.. The writing was on the wall when they introduced that mechanic last expansion. Wish the 'rework' would have dug into Blood gauge. Its a mechanic we're stuck with. IMO it could be better integrated into the kit, consequently the kit more distinct. But yes we're more likely to see, if anything, QoL for Living Dead and TBN, and a replacement to Dark Mind. How DM survived the rework is baffling to me. I lost a bet on that one. That's the priority, Blood changes would be a preference. The budget-Warrior didn't just happen with the new Delirium, that seed was planted in Stormblood.

[Reynhart]

PLD and DRK could have their Blood/Oath gauges adjusted such that instead of going from 0-100, they only go from 0-50. Once they hit 50 a charge is added to the widget, as many as 5 (they may need to decay over time). I think that would be a more appropriate meter for each.

Why should we even have a gauge that fills and that we spend to use skills in the first place ?
DRG and NIN don't share the same gauge concept, nor do BLM and RDM, etc...

But no, PLD and DRK simply received a discount Beast Gauge, which, by the way, removed one WAR uniqueness before SB.

[TheForce]

It's the same people posting the same thing in every thread hopefully the patch notes will add some actual conversation instead of people just complaining about DRK 24/7.

Man, I really, really hate when people say things like this (I'm talking about your final sentence in particular). How is there not actual conversation going on? Did you even read through this post? Or did you just take a glance at the title alone and write this? Most people who are upset with DRK aren't merely "just complaining", they ARE trying to start actual conversations about DRK by saying exactly what they don't like about it, why they don't like it, and sometimes even throwing out suggestions on what can be done to rectify these things. I mean for goodness sake, OP himself even did this, so stop trying to make it sound like people are just baselessly complaining for the sake of complaining, because you couldn't more wrong about that.

Nothing is perfect, if things are going to get better, then there needs to be people who bring attention to shortcomings and faults. It's actually ironic, because by you complaining about the people who are doing this, you're actually the one who's trying to prevent actual conversation from happening. It's actually you who has the baseless complaints that will literally accomplish absolutely nothing.

[MagiusNecros]

Man, I really, really hate when people say things like this (I'm talking about your final sentence in particular). How is there not actual conversation going on? Did you even read through this post? Or did you just take a glance at the title alone and write this? Most people who are upset with DRK aren't merely "just complaining", they ARE trying to start actual conversations about DRK by saying exactly what they don't like about it, why they don't like it, and sometimes even throwing out suggestions on what can be done to rectify these things. I mean for goodness sake, OP himself even did this, so stop trying to make it sound like people are just baselessly complaining for the sake of complaining, because you couldn't more wrong about that.

Nothing is perfect, if things are going to get better, then there needs to be people who bring attention to shortcomings and faults. It's actually ironic, because by you complaining about the people who are doing this, you're actually the one who's trying to prevent actual conversation from happening. It's actually you who has the baseless complaints that will literally accomplish absolutely nothing.

Yeah seems to be a lot of players just like to complain about people complaining and have no interest in what a players complaints actually are. Not very constructive. But hey all tanks can clear all content so I guess all these complaints are pointless.

[Lyth]

...

As we've learnt over the course of the past few expansions, players generally avoid using defensive/'utility' actions that cost you dps to use. That's why the new Raw Intuition has replaced Inner Beast, and why Sheltron no longer grants MP. Dark Arts was interesting as a concept, but really only could have worked in the long term in a closed resource system which had no potency value attached, similar to PLD's Oath gauge presently works.

The solution that was applied towards the end of Stormblood was to attach a potency value of 140 to anything that you applied Dark Arts to, but at that point it just made more sense to make the defensive/utility effect baseline and separate out the potency. Edge and Flood are still effectively an extension of the same system as Dark Arts used in 4.3, except that you get the potency instantaneously instead of on the next GCD.

Edge and Flood are still functionally Dark Arts ("A rose by any other name..."), albeit on a more streamlined system. Two things have changed however: the potency value, and the rate at which they can be used. As you may have noticed, the majority of potency values on the GCDs have increased, while the potency values on oGCDs have stayed the same. This means that clipping is more heavily punished this time around.

Edge and Flood are interesting in that their potency values are often on par with, if not in excess of, the value of your average GCD. So their placement becomes more important, and you need to be more selective in their use under raid buffs. It's no longer "I have {dark arts} to use {dark arts} this ability {dark arts} every other GCD to avoid capping" and instead "I need to use this ability at these specific points to maximise my dps." We could stand to see a marginal increase in the rate of MP generation for dps tuning purposes, but if the rate is too high, it loses its decision-making value.

I'm not saying that there aren't places where DRK could stand to be improved. Living Dead is an important subject for discussion, and I hope that it gets addressed in the coming Q+A. The topic of damage-type specific mitigation is another very important topic, when you compare abilities like Dark Missionary and Heart of Light to Shake it Off and Divine Veil on identical recasts. This is especially true now that E4S is shaping up to be a physical-only fight, both in terms of tankbusters and raidwides. I see more pressing issues at the moment, and I'd prefer to pick my battles.

And nobody ever said that I fight fair. I am a Dark Knight, after all.