FFXIV Housing = UNBELIEVABLY INFURIATING!

[Imbrium]

Hahahaha. You make it sound like you're holding on to some secret information. As if housing ownership/availability wasn't public

I was merely giving you the opportunity to save face, but alas... I see you cannot back up your own words.

Anyone with basic mathematics knowledge can figure out that a handful of players actively using a couple hundred houses out of 300,000 plots isn't nearly as bad as the thousands who either only enter them to reset the timer or let them auto-demolish after 45 days.

Pick any server and you will find more abandoned/unfurnished personal houses than there are houses owned by the same individual(s)/group(s).

Sadly this is pretty true. I've invaded/admired a ton of houses in my time and several were empty. Went back months later- still empty. Some people buy them as a placeholder for an upgrade, which is part of the current terrible system. Others buy them and then just lose interest, but they'd rather keep it then fight the placard later if they decide they DO want to do anything with it. For others it's a status symbol, which shouldn't be part of the terrible system, but the shortage makes some of the people with them feel special.

A lot of these homes could be let go if the owners weren't living in fear of placard ex again. Or on busy worlds, no placard to even ex with.

[MaybeOliverB]

The text that you have entered is too long (3664 characters). Please shorten it to 3000 characters long.

We're moving off-topic.

My original post was detailing how players have to grind in order to acquire items in an MMO. Either with gil or with their own time. Do you agree or do you not?

You can talk about the negatives of moving to other servers all you want. It doesn't change the fact that there are hundreds of plots available, free of the hidden timer and at the minimum price. If someone is too poor to buy out other players on their server and refuse to go where housing is available and cheap. That's their own choice. Laziness isn't rewarded in an MMO.

It doesn't matter if the amount of houses is finite or not when houses are released back to the market everyday on top of having players trade them all the time. Not that these two factors really matter, that is until we actually reach ~100%. We're far from there and we'll get even further with the two new servers. If someone really wants a house, they should get to work (or move) instead of cursing the twelve and writing angry posts on this forum.

Sadly, a lot of players on here get sick at the idea that they just can't have it all when they don't want to put in any effort. It might just be a generation issue

Btw, the total number of houses doesn't have to equate to whatever amount of players you want to use. A single fc house can accommodate 512 players. Using your number, that's barely over a full Goblet (1,400 out 293,760 houses).

[Almagnus1]

Hahahaha. You make it sound like you're holding on to some secret information. As if housing ownership/availability wasn't public

I was merely giving you the opportunity to save face, but alas... I see you cannot back up your own words.

I don't think you're thinking through the problems (to the land barons) that would come from having that data made public, especially if it correlated the alts and shell FCs to player accounts, as it would definitely quantify everything that goes against what you've been doing, and you know it. It really doesn't matter how you want to frame your narrative, as it's a trite charade that's easy enough to see through.

Anyone with basic mathematics knowledge can figure out that a handful of players actively using a couple hundred houses out of 300,000 plots isn't nearly as bad as the thousands who either only enter them to reset the timer or let them auto-demolish after 45 days.

Pick any server and you will find more abandoned/unfurnished personal houses than there are houses owned by the same individual(s)/group(s).

So while there's 300k plots world wide (293,760 to be exact), that means that for me in NA, there's only 103,680 available for the entire region, but as I'm on Aether, that means that the number is actually 34560 for the datacenter... which means that I'd have to go offworld to get to my house (I'm not sure that's even supported), so for Cactuar it's only 4320 houses (4 neighborhoods * 18 wards * 60 houses).

Going by https://ffxivcensus.com/ , there's almost 16M created characters, with about 750k considered "active" across the world by their definition of "active" - which is basically endgame characters (and ignores the leveling ones). For Cactuar that's 16k "active" players... vying for those 4k houses which also completely ignores the FCs. Oh, and Gilgamesh has about 17k active members on it, so your greed is actively making a bad situation worse on your home server, as you are denying about 20 other players a home going by your signature.

So while we have the apartments, the reason why I'm not counting those is that they do not have access to many of the features of the FC houses (like the workshop and gardening), so for the scope of what's driving this issue the apartments don't matter - despite adding a fairly significant number of domiciles for purchase.

[Imbrium]

That's the rub though; I agree that work should be rewarded. Goals should also be realistic and attainable. I fully support SE using grinds in this game and content like Eureka where players afk'd through infuriated me.

But, see realistically attainable. You can tell me plots are on other servers. I HAVE to talk about the negatives if they're going to disrupt gameplay, so; which? What language? Am I trading the ability to play comfortably for it? Is mch/nin/etc going to be impossible to enjoy in this new area? Am I trading the ability to converse with half the server for it? This has now gone beyond realistically attainable and entered possibly game changing, before we add in losing friends and raid groups.

So, while in theory just transferring is the best solution, in reality it is not so clean cut. And hanging onto the fact that somewhere, scattered amongst smaller servers that possibly speak languages I'm not familiar with, are a few hundred homes when there are probably twice that number at minimum waiting on more housing... does not work for me.

You talk about buying homes from fc's, which leads to an fc of one and then suggest having huge ones to make sure... What? That there's a house for each fc if we consolidate them after allowing the individual spots? I'm not sure what this argument is for. Still, in theory it works well, I'll give you that; in practice I think we'd see scamming and people booted left and right like a few large fc's on Levi I won't name. It's part of the reason we see so many small ones.

Also pardon? How would houses being finite or not NOT effect this? There are worlds where they are not released back to the market everyday. If they were no longer finite people would not be this upset, because like most content in the game, it would be a goal that could be eventually reached just through grinding. As someone who apparently likes the idea of rewarding hard work and grinding, I'm surprised you are not more for this. (Although probably at higher prices and tbh, if Ishgard isn't instanced I really do hope the plots cost more.)

I couldn't say for 100% what people are most angry about. SE told us personal and fc housing would be separate; it was not. They opened more wards and promised first dibs to fc's- pre existing home buyers were able to move too. I would agree some people are angry because they just WANT it, and now, but I know there are plenty of people waiting with gil in hand for more housing.

Again, I agree that a grind is good, and we should work for things in game. But those goals need to be realistically attainable, and not at the cost of how you play your game. Server transferring is not going to be an option for everyone, and honestly should not be the only option besides paying someone else for a home. Nothing else in game is finite like this, and that frustrates people too. You want the Seiryu ex mount? Grind 99 totems. You want a house? Hoo boy good luck.

[Imbrium]

Overall though it's pretty obvious we're just disagreeing on these points, their relevance and how much it should or should not impact housing. There is no changing the others mind. :3 Nice talking with you!

[keyalanda]

if you really want change go like those housing questions for the upcoming letter in august! argueing about it is not gonna get us anywere

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/398657

[MaybeOliverB]

I don't think you're thinking through the problems (to the land barons) that would come from having that data made public, especially if it correlated the alts and shell FCs to player accounts, as it would definitely quantify everything that goes against what you've been doing, and you know it. It really doesn't matter how you want to frame your narrative, as it's a trite charade that's easy enough to see through.

I'm afraid you have it backwards. The bulk of multihouse owners are very public about what they are doing. After all, we are playing within the rules. So as it is, you can already quantify those houses. Hence why I think this person's refusal to share said statistics is hilarious as they are available to everyone who decides to look into it.

So while there's 300k plots world wide (293,760 to be exact), that means that for me in NA, there's only 103,680 available for the entire region, but as I'm on Aether, that means that the number is actually 34560 for the datacenter... which means that I'd have to go offworld to get to my house (I'm not sure that's even supported), so for Cactuar it's only 4320 houses (4 neighborhoods * 18 wards * 60 houses).

Going by https://ffxivcensus.com/ , there's almost 16M created characters, with about 750k considered "active" across the world by their definition of "active" - which is basically endgame characters (and ignores the leveling ones). For Cactuar that's 16k "active" players... vying for those 4k houses which also completely ignores the FCs. Oh, and Gilgamesh has about 17k active members on it, so your greed is actively making a bad situation worse on your home server, as you are denying about 20 other players a home going by your signature.

So while we have the apartments, the reason why I'm not counting those is that they do not have access to many of the features of the FC houses (like the workshop and gardening), so for the scope of what's driving this issue the apartments don't matter - despite adding a fairly significant number of domiciles for purchase.

Thanks for typing that out as it allows me to expand on it since you did not cover what is arguably the most important detail. Personal housing.

You talk about greed, I think a couple hundred millions in compensations to players who have been penalized (and sprouts) on my server due to this system isn't very greedy. Not to mention the gil that was given away on other servers in more recent history. Then there's the houses we have given away to small rank 6+ FCs on our server, obviously an act of pure greed...

But back on topic.

If we are denying ~20 other players access to housing, how many players are blocking others by taking advantage of the lengthy auto-demo?
The answer is more than ~20.

How many players willingly let their house actually get auto-demolish after 45 days.
The answer is more than ~20 (I can actually quantify that one around 90 at any given time on my server).

How many personal house owners do not have a single tenant?
The answer is more than ~20.

How many personal house owners are preventing small FCs from obtaining a house despite being capped on the amount of tenants?
The answer is more than ~20.

There are about 1,250 FC houses on Gilgamesh as of last week (we actually keep track). Let's say there's 5 plots available per day, that makes 3,065 personal houses. Until those 3,065 players collectively stop taking advantage of the timer, relinquish their plot right away when they are about to cancel their subscription, have 3 tenants per house, why should we feel any sort of guilt for our actions?

There are far more players doing far more damageable actions than us, but no one talks about them.

That's the rub though; I agree that work should be rewarded. Goals should also be realistic and attainable. I fully support SE using grinds in this game and content like Eureka where players afk'd through infuriated me.

But, see realistically attainable. You can tell me plots are on other servers. I HAVE to talk about the negatives if they're going to disrupt gameplay, so; which? What language? Am I trading the ability to play comfortably for it? Is mch/nin/etc going to be impossible to enjoy in this new area? Am I trading the ability to converse with half the server for it? This has now gone beyond realistically attainable and entered possibly game changing, before we add in losing friends and raid groups.

So, while in theory just transferring is the best solution, in reality it is not so clean cut. And hanging onto the fact that somewhere, scattered amongst smaller servers that possibly speak languages I'm not familiar with, are a few hundred homes when there are probably twice that number at minimum waiting on more housing... does not work for me.

You talk about buying homes from fc's, which leads to an fc of one and then suggest having huge ones to make sure... What? That there's a house for each fc if we consolidate them after allowing the individual spots? I'm not sure what this argument is for. Still, in theory it works well, I'll give you that; in practice I think we'd see scamming and people booted left and right like a few large fc's on Levi I won't name. It's part of the reason we see so many small ones.

Also pardon? How would houses being finite or not NOT effect this? There are worlds where they are not released back to the market everyday. If they were no longer finite people would not be this upset, because like most content in the game, it would be a goal that could be eventually reached just through grinding. As someone who apparently likes the idea of rewarding hard work and grinding, I'm surprised you are not more for this. (Although probably at higher prices and tbh, if Ishgard isn't instanced I really do hope the plots cost more.)

I couldn't say for 100% what people are most angry about. SE told us personal and fc housing would be separate; it was not. They opened more wards and promised first dibs to fc's- pre existing home buyers were able to move too. I would agree some people are angry because they just WANT it, and now, but I know there are plenty of people waiting with gil in hand for more housing.

Again, I agree that a grind is good, and we should work for things in game. But those goals need to be realistically attainable, and not at the cost of how you play your game. Server transferring is not going to be an option for everyone, and honestly should not be the only option besides paying someone else for a home. Nothing else in game is finite like this, and that frustrates people too. You want the Seiryu ex mount? Grind 99 totems. You want a house? Hoo boy good luck.

We can go back and forth about what's good in theory and what doesn't actually work/apply. Just like the potd mount, in theory anyone can obtain it. Realistically, it's more convenient for most people to purchase it. Same thing with housing, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

I have absolutely no problem with someone doing the right thing and avoid wasting their free time or use automation to acquire a house by purchasing an FC house from another player. My reasons are in the reply to the person above if you are interested. Scamming is actively punished by game moderators as it is actually prohibited in the ToS (unlike house trading). I've actually had to deal with two entities who tried and well... let's just say I got the money back and they mysteriously stopped playing so I ended up acquiring their plot anyway. The amount of players that are getting scammed through housing is so ridiculously low that the subreddit dedicated to house trading has nothing but a single user in the list of players to avoid.

Gilgamesh has maintained a high population count for most of it's lifespan. On top of having character creation restrictions, we're getting near to 2 years combined of total lockdown. Funny enough, as of right now, there are 7 plots available. There is most definitely plots available on every server when someone actively looks for them.

Players are upset for the wrong reasons. Either because they do not understand how this system works and how it worked before or because it's easier to complain. Usually its both.

I absolutely support the idea of making housing hard to obtain, but in it's current state, it's a complete joke. I mean come on, we managed to acquire the equivalent of a ward on one of the highest populated server without needing any grandfathering. We're not being cheap with our past and present neighbors either....

If SE was to double the value of every plot, there wouldn't be a shortage. Players with 7M could easily get a house and the players who can barely obtain a house at the moment would still be able to acquire a house at its minimum value. Ideally, the prices should be multiplied by more than 2, especially on my server but the wealth distribution is changing throughout data centers so I wouldn't mind seeing prices based on a data center basis. Is SE was to bring back the 2.1 chart, the "housing crisis" would be over pretty quickly.

Arguably, it is much more faster to acquire a house through trading than completing 99 runs of a trial. Personally, we could obtain a house faster than completing a single run of that trial...

Overall though it's pretty obvious we're just disagreeing on these points, their relevance and how much it should or should not impact housing. There is no changing the others mind. :3 Nice talking with you!

Oh no, I think we actually do agree on the situation but not with the details. Personal housing is the reason why we are in this situation. Prices being laughably low is not so far behind.

I would like to actually thank you for debating this subject with me. The overwhelming majority of players on here are completely unable to do so...

[GU099]

"This plot of land is not yet ready for purchase."

I think I speak for everyone when I say that not only is housing in FFXIV unacceptable in this day and age, but this message above is steam-coming-out-of-my-ears infuriating.



I went to every district, every ward, and every house that was for sale tonight and got exactly this same message every time. It's actually beyond infuriating, it's downright insulting.

No. You don't speak for everyone.

[Flashgordon1975]

No. You don't speak for everyone.

Anecdotally speaking for everyone that this player likely knows. The odds that this is a fair representation of house seekers is also likely high. The housing situation is trash. I have several houses and I too have been through the grind. Just because you and I had to go through it and were successful does not mean it is optimal. It also is beneath you to minimize how they feel when they are certainly more right than they are wrong.

[GU099]

Anecdotally speaking for everyone that this player likely knows. The odds that this is a fair representation of house seekers is also likely high. The housing situation is trash. I have several houses and I too have been through the grind. Just because you and I had to go through it and were successful does not mean it is optimal. It also is beneath you to minimize how they feel when they are certainly more right than they are wrong.

You got all that from six words. Aren't you quite the Einstein? Allow me to add a like to your post as well oh good an intelligent sir.