Ninja - Rethinking how you play by mechanic design

[Laur1x]

I use the same opener, but since I am high latency I wanna ask: Assuming you have optimal ping, how far do you get in the TA window? Is TA supposed to last till the second Hyosho Ranryu?

I play from East Coast (so ~100-110ms) and I can squeeze in the second Hyosho then TA ends.

[Chooty]

If you looks at from a redesign perspective , it looks like it is though pretty much naruto to me . That rotation doesn't even take advantage of the 30% buff you get from Kassatsu's second charge ... more wasted dps .... 700 + 30% from fuma alone and then a 1000 potency from raiton , technically if you're not casting anything else after Kassatsu you're losing out

Assuming you're talking about the ninja opener in the 2nd post, it's not wasted. The 30% is applied to the following Hyosho Ranryu

[Ilyn]

Assuming you're talking about the ninja opener in the 2nd post, it's not wasted. The 30% is applied to the following Hyosho Ranryu

and what about that next cast after that? You still get another buff, the only way you won't be wasting it is to cast TCJ after it , it'll be gone by the next mudra cycle since it's 15 only seconds

[Taranok]

The optimal opener/rotation has already been math'd out, and it's nowhere what you suggested OP. We have to double-weave and clip to be optimal (if you call barely being able to beat a DNC "optimal"). We need buffs. Plain and simple.

Those aren't "You need buffs." That's flat out your rotation being broken. Plain and simple.

Summoner's in the same boat, but for different reasons.

[Laur1x]

Those aren't "You need buffs." That's flat out your rotation being broken. Plain and simple.

The opener may be convoluted, but the overall rotation after that opener is fine. The issue is our DPS quite literally can go from 16-18K burst opener all the way down under 10K.

Our sustained is a big problem. We need adjustments to our more basically abilities (ie 1-2-3 AE combo, fuma being useless/raiton clipping, bhava weak) so outside the few burst phases we can be competitive.

Obviously if they overdo it NIN becomes mandatory to every group again because TA, which is why I said many times in other threads that they should just obliterate TA entirely, or nerf it to 5% and give NIN a 5-10% pDPS bump.

TA or not, being behind all 3 other melee by 2-3K DPS is a problem. If they want to band-aid fix us with some potency increases and call it a day until they rework NIN, fine, but something has to change. TA alone doesn't warrant bringing a NIN when other melee pull ahead of the rDPS we bring with their pDPS. I don't even want to get into the discussion of why TA is overrated and only a small portion of statics utilize is properly either. Majority of the playerbase, be it casual or mid-core aren't utilizing it "perfectly" to warrant out pDPS being so low. It's the most over-hyped and dramatized ability I've seen in an MMO. It almost feels like every other job just hates us and wants us to be a bottom-dwelling DPS/buff bot forever, because god forbid the Assassin class actually loses all it's utility and does big numbers, the playerbase would implode with insanity.

[RenAshdoll]

and what about that next cast after that? You still get another buff, the only way you won't be wasting it is to cast TCJ after it , it'll be gone by the next mudra cycle since it's 15 only seconds

Unless I am missing something, the op's rotation was suiton->TA->Kassatsu->HR->Kassatsu->HR->TCJ in the general sense? Both your kassatsus are used up in the 2 HR, TCJ doesn't get the 30% buff no?

[Ilyn]

Unless I am missing something, the op's rotation was suiton->TA->Kassatsu->HR->Kassatsu->HR->TCJ in the general sense? Both your kassatsus are used up in the 2 HR, TCJ doesn't get the 30% buff no?

whatever next cast is still 30% , the first Hyosho Ranryu doesn't get the buff, your first damage buff was used on your second Hyosho Ranryu but you still have that other 30% buff . The only way to take advantage of it is by using TCJ and will buff Fuma . Since Fuma is already x2.5 damage in TCJ this will increase it by another 30% by your second Kassatsu and another 10% from TA ... crits are amazing

[RenAshdoll]

whatever next cast is still 30% , the first Hyosho Ranryu doesn't get the buff, your first damage buff was used on your second Hyosho Ranryu but you still have that other 30% buff . The only way to take advantage of it is by using TCJ and will buff Fuma . Since Fuma is already x2.5 damage in TCJ this will increase it by another 30% by your second Kassatsu and another 10% from TA ... crits are amazing

Why wouldn't HR get the 30% buff when the main requirement for HR to be available is for Kassatsu to be activated? The moment the first HR gets casted, the first kassatsu will be consumed, giving it the 30%. That TCJ after the 2nd HR will not get any kassatsu buff at all.

[RenAshdoll]

I'm pretty sure the buff is applied to the next Ninjitsu taken after Kassatsu/Hyosho Ranryu because they're basically 1 action otherwise Hyosho Ranryu would always have 30% buff and that wouldn't make sense

Nope I can attest all ninjutsu are separated from Kassatsu; u can easily test this by looking at the 2 HR dmg values during your opener or test a normal raiton against a Kassatsu->raiton sequence; . Another evidence is that in this game, any dmg up buff will either show on your status bar or on the target status bar as a debuff; once HR went off, the kassastsu buff is gone. So yes, HR will always have the 30% buff.

Other skills that have a permanent buff to them when executing them will be BLM's Fire 4 and despair at 300 and 380 potencies respectively. 1 of the execution condition is to be in the Enochian Buff, which gives access to the tier 4 spells (fire 4, blizzard 4) + a fixed 15% increase in damage.