What’s looking like the meta?

[Cabalabob]

With savage on the horizon this discussion has been popping up amongst my groups. Which jobs are looking like the meta?

There will likely be balance changes with the release of savage but these will probably just be potency adjustments rather than actual changes to the job’s kits. No drastic WAR and SCH buffs just yet.

So i’m looking at the jobs as they stand now based more on their kit, rather than their current dps numbers which are subject to change and here are my initial gut feelings without too much research.

Tanks:
Looking at the tanks it seems like WAR and PLD are built to parallel each other and the same with DRK and GNB. So while I’m not discounting the possibility that WAR/PLD or DRK/GNB could be meta, I looked at it in the sense that WAR or PLD are meant to pair with DRK or GNB.

Based on that, it looks to me like WAR and GNB will be the meta pair.

WAR: Sheltron is better than raw intuition, it’s more readily available, it mitigates about the same amount and will only improve as block strength increases and it even has a longer duration, even if only by a second.

But this is pretty much the only thing PLD has over WAR. Vengeance is better than sentinel, even if it’s just because of counter attacks and holmgang is still holmgang.

Cover so far doesn’t really offer anything right now unless some special mechanics in savage change that, while WAR gets thrill of battle which will always be useful. Nascent flash is by far better than intervention and while yes intervention can be buffed at the cost of PLDs personal CDs, until we know what CDs PLD can spare we can only really consider it at its base value, so PLD offers 10%, WAR offers 10% and healing.

Shake it off is better than divine veil even at base and while PLD also has passage of arms, based on Eden normal, it doesn’t look like there will be much chance to make use of that this raid tier.

Of course PLD has clemency which is great for progression but if your healers don’t need that help then equilibrium is far better since it doesn’t cost the WAR any dps to help out.

GNB: I don’t think I really need to go too deep here...

TBN is better than heart of stone, but it comes with that risk vs. “Reward” factor which limits its usefulness compared to heart of stone which GNB can throw out at will.

Camouflage isn’t great but it’s still better than dark mind because it can be used in any scenario while dark mind is magic exclusive. Aurora laughs at abyssal drain and superbolide is better than living dead and can cover all the things hallowed ground would cover in the old WAR/PLD comps.

Heart of light and dark missionary are just copy pasted so not really worth mentioning, most raid wides are magical anyway so either one you pick, it will serve its function.

Healers:
I haven’t really even looked at WHM or AST, so I can’t really say much on this subject. But based on what I’ve heard, not much has changed here. WHM still offers very little in the way of raid utility so it will probably end up still being AST and SCH. They may not pair well because of the shield overlap thing, but chain strat and cards are still both great raid dps buffs.

Dps:
Right off the bat we can exclude BLM, SAM and MCH since they still offer nothing for raid utility. MCH has tactician, but BRD and DNC both have a version of that too and offer other raid utility on top of that. Unless the fights have some kind of mechanics that force you to bring one of these pure dps (like an add that needs to die extremely fast that you won’t be able to kill without their high dps) these jobs are gonna be warming the bench.

NIN and DRG still have the first 2 dps spots on lockdown since trick attack and battle litany are still incredible raid utility and DRG has dragon sight to boot.

But the last 2 spots are a little more open to debate.

MNK: offers a very short recast 5% damage buff with brotherhood. It’s physical only but entirely physical comps are looking pretty good so the only ones that won’t benefit from MNK is the healers and it offers them mantra by way of apology.

SMN: also offers a 5% buff with devotion that effects all damage types. But has twice the recast of brotherhood, so unless you’re going with a mostly magical setup, which is unlikely, SMN is benched.

RDM: offers a 10% damage buff that decays over time. It gives the party physical and itself magical, so it can work in a mostly physical comp because it buffs itself separate from the rest of the group. Has a slightly longer recast than brotherhood but not as long as devotion and it makes up for it with the more powerful effect. Like with monk the only ones that don’t benefit are the healers but RDM brings veraise, great for progression but like with clemency, only helpful if your healers need the support and it’s a dps loss to use.

So for the third spot I’d say it’s between RDM and MNK and it would take a lot more brain power than mine to work out which is better.

So that leaves DNC and BRD to fight it out for the 4th spot. DNC offers a practically permanent 5% damage buff and a 20% crit and direct hit buff every 2 mins to a single party member from closed position and a 5% damage buff to the party every 2 mins.

While BRD offers battle voice which pairs nicely with battle litany every 3 mins and not much else. Sure it has minne and paean but these are fairly minor contributions.

So I’d have to say DNC wins out of the 2 of them since it offers much more consistent damage buffs.

Conclusion/tl;dr:
So it looks like the meta setup from eyeballing the jobs will be
WAR
GNB
AST
SCH
NIN
DRG
MNK/RDM?
DNC

If anyone has looked deeper into these jobs or notices something I missed let me know what your meta setup would look like.

[HyoMinPark]

With regards to healers—

Unless they make some adjustments to AST’s potencies (healing and damage), there’s no way it will be meta. AST’s rDPS doesn’t come close to beating WHM’s raw damage numbers. There are a few top speedkills for the EX primals doing double WHM—most of the other comps are WHM/SCH with very few ASTs being represented in the EX speedkills currently.

ASTs are not in a good spot right now. Any of the FFXIV social media platforms can confirm that. It’s suffering, and if they don’t do something for it, it’s going to die. Very slowly and very painfully.


With regards to DPS—

NIN’s personal damage is ridiculously low, and has fallen in popularity. It’s honestly astounding how low NIN uploads are on a certain website right now—MNKs have more uploads for it on Innocence EX. SAMs have more uploads than it as well. DRGs are doing really well, so it wouldn’t surprise me to see them in the meta. I could see MNK being good for progression because Mantra is really good. I doubt the meta will be a triple melee as you’ve listed though, since party bonuses require you to have 1 melee, 1 physical ranged, and 1 caster to get the 1% bonus from it.

In terms of casters, RDM/SMN will probably be good for progression because of their raise (even though RDM cannot Rezmage as much as it used to because it has serious mana problems now), but BLM is utterly destroying both of them in terms of personal damage (and their raid damage cannot compete with it either). It has the highest damage in the game, so I see it dominating speedkills. It’s already dominating EX speedkills. SMN and RDM don’t come close to it in terms of damage, so discounting BLM is a huge error on your part. (MCH is actually doing more damage than SMN right now.)

In terms of physical ranged, DNC is overwhelmingly the most popular. But BRD is also very well represented in speedkills for the EX primals right now. MCH apparently plays far better than it did in Stormblood, and they’ve seen higher uploads as well. So the physical ranged could be a toss-up—obviously, pad runs will involve a DNC, but meta could take any of them. BRD will be good for prog because Minne is a still a good healing buff (it affects ALL healing now—including oGCDs). DNC is also not very viable for progression, because DNC’s primary utility you’ve listed (damage buffs) will be less impactful while people are still learning a fight. Because a DNC’s party contribution is entirely dependent on how well the party does. BRD does more consistent damage by comparison, so it will be the safer pick during prog. However, as I said, the physical ranged are all doing really well right now. BRD had more representation in EX speedkills last I checked, so people certainly aren’t discounting it for DNC buffs.


With regards to tanks—

WAR is the least played tank currently. GNB is currently the most popular in terms of uploads. In speedkills currently, tank meta is GNB/PLD.

[Ryaz]

Excluding BLM would be a mistake right now. Even without raid utility, their DPS is beating out every other class by a large margin. And Nin DPS is so low that TA isn't making up for it.

[Enla]

As Hyomin said, AST is in a /very/ bad spot right now and unless some drastic potency changes are in the works for the new Savage tier it's unlikely they'll be the meta. It hurts to heal with an AST in regular raids right now I can't imagine healing with one in Savage no matter their skill level. Meanwhile WHM's are parsing into near Dancer levels if allowed to do so, and SCH has the best healing kit it's ever had. AST just can't compete right now from a pure numbers standard.

[Crushnight]

my prediction for meta:
GNB/PLD - solid mitigation with good damage
WHM/SCH- these two trump ast in every way possible right now could change on Tuesday but right now AST will not be meta
Dps(The tricky part)
Prog- DRG,SMN,BRD,MNK high enough dmg with good utility
Meta - DRG,BLM,DNC,MNK High party damage increase with 3 high dps to make up the lowest dps, BLM is very good right now with it being top dps.

Edit: this ofc hinges on lb being highly useful else double stacking jobs could very well be a thing

[ForteNightshade]

... have you even looked at rankings? Black Mage is utterly slaughtering Red Mage and Summoner. Not only is it in nearly ever single speed run, the damage difference between the three is staggeringly one-sided. The only job more represented in speed kills has been Dragoon. Likewise, you pegged Warrior as meta yet it's currently the least played tank by a decidedly large margin. Gunbreaker, Paladin and Dark Knight have all surpassed 100k uploads on that site we shall not name while Warrior languishes at 76k. This is on Innocence EX. On the range side of things, Bard dominates the speed kill meta though Dancer is far and away the most popular job. So this may balance out down the road or have Bard be the more popular range for speed kills.

Where I am utterly baffled by is you vaulting Astro ahead of White Mage. No offense, but have you been living under a rock this past month? White Mage absolutely decimates Astro—so much they even contribute more rDPS despite having none! Seriously. Even with cards, Astro is well over a thousand below White Mage—who can out damage tanks if setup to turret. Scholar, meanwhile, has arguably the strongest pure healing kit in the game. Both it and White Mage are widely superior in this regard. Without some significant changes, there is not a chance in hell Astro becomes meta.

[Aomine1992]

AST will most likely be cut lol why bring a struggle healer when you can have a WHM to heal better and our damage your NIN.

SMN will be the least desired caster unless they fix its current issues. I see BLM always being chosen cause it is utterly the best class for dps and honestly current design is disgustingly good. Neither other casters can compare or offer anything that will reach its dps. Also BLM is the most mobile currently so yea BLM will definitely be a better option.

Poor NIN. That is all

[NorthernLadMSP]

I actually LOL'd when I read some of the things on the OP's list.

[Daralii]

Tank DPS is practically even across the board, which means it's purely a matter of mitigation and utility. That guarantees PLD a spot, but unless the double busters/swaps are that punishing, the other tank will probably boil down to preference.

[Derio]

Looks like GNB/PLD for meta tank pair.
Looks like WHM/SCH for meta healer pair or even WHM/WHM due to the dps gap between the healers
BLM for sure is pretty much a requirement.
DNC for sure over choosing NIN
DRG
And either SAM or MNK for the last spot.

But the 5.05 patch could change everything or nothing