Summoner Early Post-Launch Feedback at level 80

[Taranok]

I posed this question in another thread but for the top raiders, would it be better to add Demi-Bahamut to DWT or remove Demi-Phoenix from FBT?

I wouldn't qualify as a top raider, but I do raid. I'd personally say merging DB with DWT because instant-cast spells work a lot better with the demi-summons and drops the skill floor a little (no longer need to make sure your last couple GCDs are instant cast if they're all instant). It also would give the rotation some rest between DWT and your mid-cycle reapplication of terrible DPS cooldowns, as well as just thematically fit more.

The problem with this is that DWT is a time where you can freely spend EA1 and 2, as well as devotion and enkindle. Which would completely break that part of the flow.

Given that Aetherflow and EA1 and 2 are literally the worst parts of SMN right now, forcing the dev's hand in this regard wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing because it would demand they redress the problem at a time when they combine DB with DWT. This still would leave Summoner as somewhat broken in terms of its overall rotation because Ruination is also badly designed right now in how it naturally wants to align with pre DWT->post DB->During FBT, but having Ruination during FBT wastes 20 seconds of it, so there's a completely unnatural rotation that attempts to keep ruination up for longer stretches of the fight when you're actually casting ruin. It's one of those things the devs definitely didn't think about when designing the new SMN and it's another major aspect of its clunky feeling.

After I start levelling my BLM to 80, I can see SMN is a lot worse than I thought in the beginning. I could adjust my playstyle with its multi-timers, pet's negligible dps, lots of buttons to press, but I can't honestly justify the overall dmg output for such a complicated job. BLM with its much simple rotation leaves SMN in dust in terms of power, comfort and mobility.

How complex a rotation is shouldn't justify how it's balanced. It should be balanced based on overall raid DPS. The problem with SMN though is also that the class has a very awful feel to it. It's busy, but it's a jarring business created by having a bunch of disparate and poorly designed mechanics that don't interact well with each other, not because its DPS is bad.

[HeulGDarian]

How complex a rotation is shouldn't justify how it's balanced. It should be balanced based on overall raid DPS. The problem with SMN though is also that the class has a very awful feel to it. It's busy, but it's a jarring business created by having a bunch of disparate and poorly designed mechanics that don't interact well with each other, not because its DPS is bad.

complexity is a factor in balance a high skill ceiling and high skill floor job needs to have a high pay off as well be it damage or utility otherwise a job that is easier and gets less fcked by mechanics will be preferable cause why would you work harder for the same pay off. As for why they mechanics Don't interact with each other its cause the mechanics are the same but the execution is worse. they didn't want the 1 min w8ing to have 2 aetherflows so they made stuff be avalaiable only in battle they wanted to not have the aetherflow 60 sec deadline so they removed it from the chain and put trance in its place which is an even harsher deadline they made the disparity between ruin 2 and 3 bigger which discourages moving unless you got a ruin 4 and even then you don't want to use them cause you need them on bahamut . they said they wanted to encourage summon swapping but the reworks made them worse the egi actions being ogcd wouldn't be a problem if only they were good and as for devotion and dots they are simply numbers problem.