Summoner Early Post-Launch Feedback at level 80

[Angry_Evil]

I wish they just gave us 3 extra slots of Aetherflow (while still keeping Aetherflow 3 stacks per use) and called it a day instead of a complete rework, which wasn't really needed when the job was in a respectable place already. The only good thing about this rework was the pet responsiveness but everything else is just...unnecessary and frustrating.

Pet responsiveness is still bad tho.

[dinnertime]

Pet responsiveness is still bad tho.

I dunno, personally I think they're a lot better than what they used to be, but yeah there's still glaring problems about it.

[Dahlinea]

The design of the SMN now is not bad but the execution of all the things it has now is the worst. I wish they could make pets have only one Egi Assault, with 2 charges each, and each charge used giving you 2 stacks of Ruin IV. There is literally no reason for two Egi Assaults since their damage is miserable, but if combined in a single one with more potency to make up for losing one, they can make more apparent damage. So we could be like

- Garuda with only Slipstream with same dot and corrected potency;
- Ifrit with only Crimson Cyclone with corrected potency;
- Titan with only the Shield with, maybe, some damage tied to it to whoever hits the person with the shield (to make up for losing Mountain Buster).

Of course, this needs tuning and the CDs need to change. It would be nice if 2 Egi Assault charges are always up during DWT, our new Egi Assault dumping phase right now, and please, give DWT more "love" (that is, it's 10% magic increase buff) again.

Another suggestion is to increase the potency of Inferno and make it single target, so we can make Ifrit-Egi just for single target situations and Garuda-Egi the one we want for AOEs. Right now both pets has some form of AOE attack but it would be nice if their utility is well defined from the start (i.e. so no arguments like "there were lots of mobs but ifrit also has an aoe skill so i kept it instead of garuda" arise.)

Also, something I personally would like to see for both Bahamut and Phoenix is them using Ahk Morn and Revelation automatically and leaving, if we let their timer run out without manually use Enkindle. I wanted this ever since SB and seeing they did it for MCH and not for us just made me really sad.

[Taranok]

I wish they just gave us 3 extra slots of Aetherflow (while still keeping Aetherflow 3 stacks per use) and called it a day instead of a complete rework, which wasn't really needed when the job was in a respectable place already. The only good thing about this rework was the pet responsiveness but everything else is just...unnecessary and frustrating.

FBT auto-summoning DP is pretty amazing too, as well as how FBT alters your base rotation, which is refreshing even if it is simple.

Though the class is rife with issues in general.

[Aniond]

In my opinion. Give the damage boost back to the trances. Remove the damage reduction past the 1st target and summoner would be great.

[xicious]

Reducing Trance cool downs(slightly)and having bahamut auto summoned(losing a button would be so nice) when DWT is active so ruin 3 is instacasted would be enough of a fix for me personally. Granted there's a whole boat load more of fixes needed but that's a start.

[Dyvid]

I posed this question in another thread but for the top raiders, would it be better to add Demi-Bahamut to DWT or remove Demi-Phoenix from FBT?

[ksuyen]

After I start levelling my BLM to 80, I can see SMN is a lot worse than I thought in the beginning. I could adjust my playstyle with its multi-timers, pet's negligible dps, lots of buttons to press, but I can't honestly justify the overall dmg output for such a complicated job. BLM with its much simple rotation leaves SMN in dust in terms of power, comfort and mobility.

[Taranok]

I posed this question in another thread but for the top raiders, would it be better to add Demi-Bahamut to DWT or remove Demi-Phoenix from FBT?

I wouldn't qualify as a top raider, but I do raid. I'd personally say merging DB with DWT because instant-cast spells work a lot better with the demi-summons and drops the skill floor a little (no longer need to make sure your last couple GCDs are instant cast if they're all instant). It also would give the rotation some rest between DWT and your mid-cycle reapplication of terrible DPS cooldowns, as well as just thematically fit more.

The problem with this is that DWT is a time where you can freely spend EA1 and 2, as well as devotion and enkindle. Which would completely break that part of the flow.

Given that Aetherflow and EA1 and 2 are literally the worst parts of SMN right now, forcing the dev's hand in this regard wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing because it would demand they redress the problem at a time when they combine DB with DWT. This still would leave Summoner as somewhat broken in terms of its overall rotation because Ruination is also badly designed right now in how it naturally wants to align with pre DWT->post DB->During FBT, but having Ruination during FBT wastes 20 seconds of it, so there's a completely unnatural rotation that attempts to keep ruination up for longer stretches of the fight when you're actually casting ruin. It's one of those things the devs definitely didn't think about when designing the new SMN and it's another major aspect of its clunky feeling.

After I start levelling my BLM to 80, I can see SMN is a lot worse than I thought in the beginning. I could adjust my playstyle with its multi-timers, pet's negligible dps, lots of buttons to press, but I can't honestly justify the overall dmg output for such a complicated job. BLM with its much simple rotation leaves SMN in dust in terms of power, comfort and mobility.

How complex a rotation is shouldn't justify how it's balanced. It should be balanced based on overall raid DPS. The problem with SMN though is also that the class has a very awful feel to it. It's busy, but it's a jarring business created by having a bunch of disparate and poorly designed mechanics that don't interact well with each other, not because its DPS is bad.

[HeulGDarian]

How complex a rotation is shouldn't justify how it's balanced. It should be balanced based on overall raid DPS. The problem with SMN though is also that the class has a very awful feel to it. It's busy, but it's a jarring business created by having a bunch of disparate and poorly designed mechanics that don't interact well with each other, not because its DPS is bad.

complexity is a factor in balance a high skill ceiling and high skill floor job needs to have a high pay off as well be it damage or utility otherwise a job that is easier and gets less fcked by mechanics will be preferable cause why would you work harder for the same pay off. As for why they mechanics Don't interact with each other its cause the mechanics are the same but the execution is worse. they didn't want the 1 min w8ing to have 2 aetherflows so they made stuff be avalaiable only in battle they wanted to not have the aetherflow 60 sec deadline so they removed it from the chain and put trance in its place which is an even harsher deadline they made the disparity between ruin 2 and 3 bigger which discourages moving unless you got a ruin 4 and even then you don't want to use them cause you need them on bahamut . they said they wanted to encourage summon swapping but the reworks made them worse the egi actions being ogcd wouldn't be a problem if only they were good and as for devotion and dots they are simply numbers problem.