2.5s Recast/GCD feels wayyy too long.

[Xyr]

Could OP please address the OGCD argument? Almost all dps jobs have many of those and the ones that don't have cast times where gcd doesn't feel that bad. The combat system is designed around weaving OGCD skills.

I didn't want to bother because I didn't want to have to look up all the OGCD skills. Since I've only played SMN and SAM in Shadowbringer, I'll use them as examples.

For SAM, I won't mention every single oGCD skill, the primary ones to weave are Senei, Shinten, and Kaiten. Kaiten takes 20 Kenki, Shinten takes 25, and Senei takes 50 with a CD of 120s. Ikishoten gives 50 Kenki every minute. Hakaze, Shifu, and Jinpu generates 5 Kenki per cast. Kasha and Gekko generates 10, and Yukikaze generates 15.

In one minute, 24 GCD skills can be used, note Midare/Higan/Tsubame all have a 1.5s cast time + 2.5s recast.

Listing the GCD skills:

Hakaze ->Shifu -> Kasha -> Hakaze -> Jinpu -> Higanbana -> Gekko -> Hakaze -> Yukikaze -> Kasha(Meikyo 1) -> Midare -> Tsubame Gaeshi -> Kasha(MeiKyo 2) -> Gekko (Meikyo 3) -> Midare -> Hakaze -> Shifu -> Kasha -> Hakaze -> Jinpu -> Gekko -> Midare -> Hakaze -> Shifu

With 13% haste selfbuff, this takes ~60 seconds.


That's a gain of 140 Kenki from GCD skills in 1 minute + Ikishoten 50 per minute - Senei 25 per minute - 4 Kaiten 80 per minute - 3 Shinten 50 kenki per minute, 10 residual Kenki.

Above is a list of 30 actions, adding in True north x2 + Meikyo, a total of 36 actions per minute. Which brings down the 2.5s to 1.82s.

So, with 13% sks + weaving still leaves it to be a long ass GCD of 1.67s(weaving reductions incluced).

An entire team can be wiped out in League or Dota in a 1.67s stun...

WoW has a base of 1.5s GCD but their gear have extremely high stats compared to XIV. Even without stacking for haste intentionally, most dps will get 30% or so from their equipment, those who stack haste can reach 50-60%, and 30% is enough for them to reduce their GCD to 1s, and their GCD can be reduce to .75s on classes with self-haste buffs.

Not to mention, WoW is the worst case. Tera, Blade and Soul, and Back Desert all have incredibly low GCD, even accounting for animation lock.

The point of this thread is not, "I would do more damage if GCD was lower," or "There's not enough skills to use."

The point is regarding combat, the games listed above(other than WoW), have good combat flow, it's fluid and synchronized, even with animation locks, it's pleasant to play because you don't feel that animation lock, it's like everything is natural.

FFXIV doesn't have that flow and the incredibly long GCDs are a part of the problem.

Ever played a MOBA and get stunned for 1.5s? And in that 1.5s you just watch in slow motion as literally 20+ things happened, your health drop from 100% to 0, but you can't do anything for this 1.5s that feels like a eternity so you just sit back and read a book or something. That's exactly how it feels everytime my GCD comes up and I have nothing to use.

[Roshidon1]

WoW has a base of 1.5s GCD but their gear have extremely high stats compared to XIV. Even without stacking for haste intentionally, most dps will get 30% or so from their equipment, those who stack haste can reach 50-60%, and 30% is enough for them to reduce their GCD to 1s, and their GCD can be reduce to .75s on classes with self-haste buffs.

Not to mention, WoW is the worst case. Tera, Blade and Soul, and Back Desert all have incredibly low GCD, even accounting for animation lock.

The point of this thread is not, "I would do more damage if GCD was lower," or "There's not enough skills to use."

The point is regarding combat, the games listed above(other than WoW), have good combat flow, it's fluid and synchronized, even with animation locks, it's pleasant to play because you don't feel that animation lock, it's like everything is natural.

FFXIV doesn't have that flow and the incredibly long GCDs are a part of the problem.

Ever played a MOBA and get stunned for 1.5s? And in that 1.5s you just watch in slow motion as literally 20+ things happened, your health drop from 100% to 0, but you can't do anything for this 1.5s that feels like a eternity so you just sit back and read a book or something. That's exactly how it feels everytime my GCD comes up and I have nothing to use.

I disagree. I think barring a few latency issues the combat has good flow, is fluid and synchronized (well maybe not Ninja, mostly due to latency issues admittedly) minimal animation locks, etc.

You keep comparing FFXIV to other games. This is not those games, and in fact its kind of nice to have something different for a change and not the spam-fest you get with alot of other games.

[Physic]

I disagree. I think barring a few latency issues the combat has good flow, is fluid and synchronized (well maybe not Ninja, mostly due to latency issues admittedly) minimal animation locks, etc.

You keep comparing FFXIV to other games. This is not those games, and in fact its kind of nice to have something different for a change and not the spam-fest you get with alot of other games.

most basic chains flow feels extremely artificial, how is something a combo action , with 2.5 seconds between parts? Now, I do believe some people prefer that to the opposite. but that doesn't mean it flows, I would say most actions being not allowed regardless to length of animation, or length of effect for a specific static amount of time essentially defies the term flow.

you could probably say its like clockwork, but I wouldn't say it has good flow.

[Roshidon1]

I have no idea what you just said tbh. If I didn't know any better I'd say you are arguing semantics.

[Xyr]

I have no idea what you just said tbh. If I didn't know any better I'd say you are arguing semantics.

Long story short, counting oGCD weaving, there's an average of 1.8s downtime per action. Which is still a crap ton of downtime in a 15min(titan/inno ex) fight. Basically there's more downtime than uptime, which is a terrible combat model imo.

[Kabooa]

Long story short, counting oGCD weaving, there's an average of 1.8s downtime per action. Which is still a crap ton of downtime in a 15min(titan/inno ex) fight. Basically there's more downtime than uptime, which is a terrible combat model imo.

*looks at Dark Souls*

*looks at Camera*

[Powercow]

Long story short, counting oGCD weaving, there's an average of 1.8s downtime per action. Which is still a crap ton of downtime in a 15min(titan/inno ex) fight. Basically there's more downtime than uptime, which is a terrible combat model imo.

I know you don't like the "logs" argument but, no yeah we're going there. The reason you think there's such a long time in between actions is because you're doing it wrong. A 1.8s downtime per action would mean an APM of ~33, which is miserably low. Not even counting positionals, it should be about 40 (and that's WITH boss mechanics and forced downtime.) If you're moving to hit your positionals, Samurai would be closer to 50.

Before you hid them (because you don't want to improve?) you weren't even doing 33, you were floating at ~30. You could be hitting 30% more buttons and still be behind other Samurai. This leads me to believe that your belief about the pace of combat being slow has more to do with you not knowing how to play the job at its maximum, and less to do with the game or job.

[Xyr]

I know you don't like the "logs" argument but, no yeah we're going there. The reason you think there's such a long time in between actions is because you're doing it wrong. A 1.8s downtime per action would mean an APM of ~33, which is miserably low. Not even counting positionals, it should be about 40 (and that's WITH boss mechanics and forced downtime.) If you're moving to hit your positionals, Samurai would be closer to 50.

Before you hid them (because you don't want to improve?) you weren't even doing 33, you were floating at ~30. You could be hitting 30% more buttons and still be behind other Samurai. This leads me to believe that your belief about the pace of combat being slow has more to do with you not knowing how to play the job at its maximum, and less to do with the game or job.

That's why I only counted skills, and if you read the skills I posted, I counted all possible skills used within 1 minute + all oGCD skills possibly used given the possible amount of Kenki. 33 is a very good estimate at 95-100% uptime, and it is dully low. Not counting movement(which exists in almost every game, fps, moba, etc). My APM in moba can go upward of 100-200, if I count all the movements, there are only 4 skills to use, so does that mean it's a good combat system? Maybe FFXIV should only have 4 skills then. Movements don't count as they do not make the combat flow better.