Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[Nixxe]

How much time qualifies for 'having the time to play it'?

A nonzero amount of time, but let me expand on that statement by saying that there's always going to be someone who has to spend 197 hours a week helping their grandparents take care of their goldfish, which is suffering from dementia and in need of constant care. The fact that they personally do not have time to play as much as others should not be wielded as a cudgel to harm the experience of those who can play more. We each have the same amount of hours in a week and we each spend them differently in accordance with our needs and priorities. Presumably, if you spent less time on this game than someone else, you got something for that time. Maybe you hung out with friends or maybe you collected a paycheck or maybe you did something else. That you should then come to this game and demand that those who spent more time on this game be barred from receiving rewards proportionate to that greater investment is utterly selfish.

Just last week I spent almost all of my free time finishing up my crafters. That meant I didn't level up more DoW/M jobs. That meant I didn't do some other recreational activities outside of the game. That meant I didn't start a book I've been meaning to read. What I got for that time was max leveled crafters I no longer have to worry about and had fun doing it, especially when the money started rolling in afterward. Should I be in here demanding that everyone else's progression in every other area of the game be limited because that wasn't how I spent my time? I'm usually unsubbed for around half of every expansion. When I come back, should I be instantly boosted into full BiS crafting gear? Conversely, should everyone else be barred from getting anything of value while I'm gone? It'd be pretty insane to answer yes to that, yet here you are insisting that it's utterly intolerable that anyone should be rewarded with anything you want for spending more time than you in a particular way.

Crafting has never been so involved as to be completely inaccessible to casual players. I would know, as I have generally been fairly casual with this game. I will put in a lot of hours at certain points, but between unsubbing and the rest of the time, it averages out. I started this game halfway through ARR. I began leveling DoH in the last quarter with little gil and no clue what I was doing. I had seven million gil by the end of the expansion, as well as two level 50 crafting classes. It wasn't much, but I spent time and put effort into it and I earned that. I first became an omnicrafter when I came back in the second half of HW. I got my Ironworks gear and started making money. I got up to 35 mil by the end of HW. I've kept up with crafting since then and continue to derive joy from using it to make money. When I come back from one of my breaks, I am always behind in every aspect of the game. I don't come to the forums and complain that other people have "mechanical advantages." They played the game. They stayed subbed. They put more time into it. They deserve that advantage. I just figure out what matters to me and get to work. Indeed, if they took that away, if they trivialized it, I would literally have less of a game to play.

There's no value in a game that beats itself for you, but if that's what you want, there's always Crusaders of Light.

[Kabooa]

There's no value in a game that beats itself for you, but if that's what you want, there's always Crusaders of Light.

I think we're just going to disagree heavily on a singular point, where exclusivity rewards mechanical power.

So, good luck. I hope Ishgard works for you, and I hope the masterbooks do too. I hope the game remains fun, or reclaims some of it for you. If it doesn't, I recommend Black Desert Online. It sounds like it'll hit the notes you want.

[KageTokage]

Maxing DoH classes is far, far less of a time investment then DoW/M classes thanks to the ridiculous EXP payouts on the levequests.

Which makes the fact that I regularly see people botting to level them by spamming easy crafts all night all the more pathetic.

[Granyala]

*How dare people who don't want to invest time or effort be allowed to obtain every bit as much as I do, ruining what I enjoy in the process.

But here is the kicker:
You DON'T have to invest absurd amounts of time anymore.
That's a good thing because a) there is a Real Life that is much more deserving of your energy than a video game b) there are other games out there that are fun too.
Cutting down on mindless grind and RNG is a win-win scenario for all involved, including the hardcores, making room for other hobbies in the process.

That’s usually not how online video games work. When I used to play call of duty a lot, I spent hours and even weeks trying to farm Headshots to get all golden guns. Where I eventually got diamond guns as a compensation. Very rewarding. It showed that the developers appreciate the no life players that really enjoyed their game.

And I would argue, that good game design delivers the goods w/o encouraging no-life behavior and falling into the skinner-box / addiction trap. Esp when it is a game that you play solo (crafting is, in essence, a 1 man effort).

Maxing DoH classes is far, far less of a time investment then DoW/M classes thanks to the ridiculous EXP payouts on the levequests.

That's because leveling the crafters and crafting the actual items never was the time consuming part.
It was getting your gear ready in order to be allowed to craft the item that ate up the majority of the time. Esp in ARR when you could not easily get your hands on materia, had to spiritbind it yourself or spend a fortune on the Market Boards. REPEATEDLY because they released tiers of gear just like for DOM/W.

So in the downtime you crafted the crap out of things in order to make money for the next RNG 1 armed bandit "affix my materia plx" round.

THAT'S what kept me off crafting in ARR and HW. And them adding cheap IV materia and affordable Vs via scrip was the single most impactful nerf to crafting ever.
That and making desynthesis *shudder* basically useless past 100.

Forget the whine about prudent touch, that is merely a convenience not having to deal with RNG anymore.
Figuring out a rotation to get your item to HQ/completion isn't exactly rocket science. Never has been, despite what people would like you to believe.

[Nixxe]

But here is the kicker:
You DON'T have to invest absurd amounts of time anymore.
That's a good thing because a) there is a Real Life that is much more deserving of your energy than a video game b) there are other games out there that are fun too.
Cutting down on mindless grind and RNG is a win-win scenario for all involved, including the hardcores, making room for other hobbies in the process.

You're literally arguing that it's a good thing because it gives you less of a reason to play this game. You are the last person anyone in SE should cater to. Stop trying to take the game away from people who enjoy it, to say nothing of insisting you're doing us a favor in doing so.

Crafting never required absurd amounts of time anyway. This game has always been extremely casual friendly in the amounts of time it asks of players to accomplish things. Reducing that further means you may as well just stop logging in entirely.

[CookiesNCreams]

You're literally arguing that it's a good thing because it gives you less of a reason to play this game. You are the last person anyone in SE should cater to. Stop trying to take the game away from people who enjoy it, to say nothing of insisting you're doing us a favor in doing so.

Crafting never required absurd amounts of time anyway. This game has always been extremely casual friendly in the amounts of time it asks of players to accomplish things. Reducing that further means you may as well just stop logging in entirely.

Couldn’t agree more. It honestly blows my mind how people have the audacity to silence, unfairly criticize, and demonize players that enjoy a game enough to geek it out. (Hardcore) While in the process, pushing for the devs to cater to their needs only. Why? Because you don’t spend as much time in the game as other players? Our enjoyment should suffer because poor you can’t find enough time, or commit more time into crafting?

That in itself, is just selfish. Instead of wanting both types of players to have fun, they want only casual players to have that enjoyment..while in the process, silencing and crucifying players that like challenges and earning their rewards.

That’s what I have a problem with, when it comes to the casual crafters in this community. Instead of looking for an agreement, they only want things to go their way? Um, sorry.

I don’t agree with such a corrupt mindset. This has been ongoing since 4.0, and to have it carry over to 5.0+ is absolutely insulting and quite frankly, disappointing. This is why I personally will keep bringing up this problem until it is answered in a live letter. We at least deserve to know why casuals are being prioritized in crafting and why hardcores are being flipped off.

Pushing away your players that stuck with crafting since ARR is nothing short of insanity.

Hardcore players: oh i know lets ask yoshida to make crafting please causals and Hardcores
Casual players: no
Hardcore players: why not, its a good idea
Casual players: no
Square Enix: we gotta listen to casuals guys

[armandojc3]

Crafting is easy now?, time to jump in .

[CookiesNCreams]

Crafting is easy now?, time to jump in .

Have fun, haha. Hopefully by the time 6.0 comes out, us old school crafters can get an answer out of Yoshida, and maybe get a mix of hardcore and casual!

[DPZ2]

I don’t agree with such a corrupt mindset. This has been ongoing since 4.0, and to have it carry over to 5.0+ is absolutely insulting and quite frankly, disappointing. This is why I personally will keep bringing up this problem until it is answered in a live letter. We at least deserve to know why casuals are being prioritized in crafting and why hardcores are being flipped off.

I'm a bit confused here. What, exactly, do you want to have happen in order to facilitate your concept of hardcore crafting?

What has to be removed (or added) from the current game?

And how will this requested change affect casual crafters?

Is this a 'casuals are not worthy' issue?

Someone on the hardcore crafting side mentioned economics in a post. I assume if anyone can craft HQ gear, the pricing of such gear on the Market Board is reduced. Is this a reason (not necessarily the only one) that hardcore crafters are dissatisfied with the way things are going?

[Elamys]

Man, this is a weird argument to me. I do get annoyed by people who push too hard for exclusivity, but that generally means stuff like ranking rewards...wanting to be rewarded for playing at a higher level than others isn't selfish. It's how everything in this game works. How many people would bother raiding Savage if it didn't come with higher ilvl gear? Or do Ultimate if it didn't have the special weapons? These are things that are "exclusive" because of their difficulty, but can still be obtained by anyone willing to put forth the effort. Just because you think crafting has never been hard doesn't change the fact that we'd like something for people who want to try a little bit harder; fact is, a lot of people don't craft because they think it's too hard.