Abuse of the TOS. Loophole regarding griefing/trolling. Needs a solution.

[GothicDolly]

If those people in question follow you - you can report harassment as far as stalking. I used to have a player follow me and spam emotes, even after I blacklisted. I would teleport zones and they would actually search me and follow me to said location. So I reported that person and they just disappeared I assume jailed. /shrug

I hope so. Sorry you had to go through that by the way! I mean, I reported as many of them as possible--but there are times where groups like this are smart enough to not say a single word or even emote. I'm not even sure if this recent occurrence yielded enough proof of abuse.

The trolls are fully aware that following roleplayers wherever they go and /crouching with their face up against their crotch--while folks are trying to stay in character is more than enough. No words or emotes needed. It doesn't help that a lot of people don't like roleplayers to begin with, so a lot of the time when we're "picked on" we're being "dramatic". It's a shame but I'm just glad there are many folks here who understand where I am coming from.

[RoyalBeef]

I hope so. Sorry you had to go through that by the way! I mean, I reported as many of them as possible--but there are times where groups like this are smart enough to not say a single word or even emote. I'm not even sure if this recent occurrence yielded enough proof of abuse.

The trolls are fully aware that following roleplayers wherever they go and /crouching with their face up against their crotch--while folks are trying to stay in character is more than enough.

If you're at public places there will always be players interrupting you, intentionally or unintentionally. Where do we draw the line. Sorry that it sucks for you, but I'll never advocate for the ability of people to report others for basicaly just being there, who tells me I wont end up being reported for sitting on that bench that RPers "claimed" for their RP? If you port in where I sit and my head ends up in your crotch, is it reportable? How can I prove it wasn't my fault?

When have people unlearned to cope with minor inconveniencies, and instead started calling for some authority to ban everything that incoveniences them? Now it's infesting gaming as well.

Come on, you're an adult , and a group of random players just following you around in an online game without even doing anything throws you off? Really?

[GothicDolly]

If you're at public places there will always be players interrupting you, intentionally or unintentionally. Where do we draw the line. Sorry that it sucks for you, but I'll never advocate for the ability of people to report others for basicaly just being there, who tells me I wont end up being reported for sitting on that bench that RPers "claimed" for their RP? If you port in where I sit and my head ends up in your crotch, is it reportable? How can I prove it wasn't my fault?

When have people unlearned to cope with minor inconveniencies, and instead started calling for some authority to ban everything that incoveniences them? Now it's infesting gaming as well.

Come on, you're an adult , and a group of random players just following you around in an online game without even doing anything throws you off? Really?

You make good points. I think the best solution that would put both sides at peace would be to have it where blacklisting another player causes their character to vanish from your end locally. No reports filed, no foul words exchanged, out of sight of out of mind. There are online games that have a blacklist like this, but since I doubt Enix are going to take into consideration one person's idea for a feature, eh.

To me, a public place is a public place. Whether it be in a video game, or real life. If you're having a midnight dinner with your husband at a Restaurant--and ten strangers dressed as clowns surround your table then start to dance and wave around flashlights, would you not be annoyed? Even more so if they refused to move because it's "a public space"? It would be irritating, you wouldn't want them there. Even worse if they refuse to leave. It'd be harassment. Normal people do not get that close to other people like that. It's malicious because they know you don't want them there. You told them so.

I get it. FFXIV is a game. But like, no matter how you spin it, the same principal applies. It's harassment. These people are purposely bothering me, I tell them to stop, they don't. So while yes I can just "get over it", just know that they are breaking the TOS while simultaneously being immune to it. I am a player, I am being stalked and purposely annoyed, that's that.

[Nora_of_Mira]

To me, a public place is a public place. Whether it be in a video game, or real life. If you're having a midnight dinner with your husband at a Restaurant--and ten strangers dressed as clowns surround your table then start to dance and wave around flashlights, would you not be annoyed? Even more so if they refused to move because it's "a public space"? It would be irritating, you wouldn't want them there. Even worse if they refuse to leave. It'd be harassment. Normal people do not get that close to other people like that. It's malicious because they know you don't want them there. You told them so.

I consider them both public places but I don't see them as equivalent public places. there are social norms for both but there are different norms and different punishments enforced. "Yes it's irritating in game, but these people can't cause physical harm like in restaurant", is just one example. Unless they are consistently stalking you and making the game miserable, I wouldnt expect Square to do anything about this.

Personally when I run into "annoying" players (i have my own definition) I always see what I can do first before considering what Square needs to do to prevent this. I will mute performance, turn off player effects, lower other players voices, blacklist, and eventually, just leave the area. I've been playing since 2.55 and it's never really been an issue to just make small adjustments for the outlier trolls/annoying people.

[RoyalBeef]

Theater is scripted, roleplaying is improvisation. You act like you think your character would act based on their background, experiences, beliefs, alignment etc. Actors in theater have no freedom, maybe they even disagree with the way the character they play is reacting, but they are not allowed to change anything about it.

As to people shouting slurrs... is it ok? Of course not. But it's some basement dwelling imbecile, who gives a fk? I feel like I'm not "internetting" right when I don't get at least 3 people per day sending me death threats. Sometimes I ask them if they need a hug lol. The one big mistake to make is taking anything that happens in the internet seriously. But then again my thik skin was forged during the timeswhen Modern Warfare 2 Lobbies existed. They turned fragile boys into hardened men I tell you ^^

[Gula]

Theater is scripted, roleplaying is improvisation. You act like you think your character would act based on their background, experiences, beliefs, alignment etc. Actors in theater have no freedom, maybe they even disagree with the way the character they play is reacting, but they are not allowed to change anything about it.^

I don't think you know much about theater outside Hollywood.

[xxvaynxx]

If you're at public places there will always be players interrupting you, intentionally or unintentionally. Where do we draw the line. Sorry that it sucks for you, but I'll never advocate for the ability of people to report others for basicaly just being there, who tells me I wont end up being reported for sitting on that bench that RPers "claimed" for their RP? If you port in where I sit and my head ends up in your crotch, is it reportable? How can I prove it wasn't my fault?

When have people unlearned to cope with minor inconveniencies, and instead started calling for some authority to ban everything that incoveniences them? Now it's infesting gaming as well.

Come on, you're an adult , and a group of random players just following you around in an online game without even doing anything throws you off? Really?

You draw the line when someone does it intentionally obviously?

Some of your points are quite exaggerated, obviously if you just poof on someone character they're not going to get mad or anything, or just sit on the bench they happen to be RP'ing at, roleplayers don't really "clam" spots either...at least from what I seen.

I don't RP much but I have seen people intentionally just run up with their group of friends and just strip to their small clothes and basically spam emotes and the wine bottle glass emote.

You're really picking and choosing what to reply to ignoring the fact this is about people that are doing it for the sole reason to annoy the RolePlayers.
I'll say this is Griefing if anything.

Nobody is complaining about randoms following, its that they're following AND being a pest by spamming emotes to "intentionally" annoy you which actually is against the ToS.

Problem is, its hard to prove, more so if they turned their emote text off.
The best thing you can do is report as they're doing it.

This right here is 100% a feature I whole-heartedly approve of considering that they now have multiple instances for some zones. It would solve so much friction between role-players and non-roleplayers as people who are not into it can just never enter those instances, and role-players have a place where they can roleplaying without too much immersion breaking shenanigans, which would if it happened be fully reportable as it would be obvious the person is a griefer and get banned SOLELY from RP instances.

There are so many issues something like this would solve.

They already kinda have this, don't go to balmung. If RP bothers someone that much don't go to ul'dah or just don't visit balmung.
The open RP is mostly at ul'dah sooo....

[Alleo]

If you're at public places there will always be players interrupting you, intentionally or unintentionally. Where do we draw the line. Sorry that it sucks for you, but I'll never advocate for the ability of people to report others for basicaly just being there, who tells me I wont end up being reported for sitting on that bench that RPers "claimed" for their RP? If you port in where I sit and my head ends up in your crotch, is it reportable? How can I prove it wasn't my fault?

When have people unlearned to cope with minor inconveniencies, and instead started calling for some authority to ban everything that incoveniences them? Now it's infesting gaming as well.

Come on, you're an adult , and a group of random players just following you around in an online game without even doing anything throws you off? Really?

Yeah OP dont be annoyed at someone stalking you with the intent to make the game for you less fun!... I mean if someone did it once as a joke fine people should maybe deal with it. But as someone who was also harrassed ingame there is a point where it becomes too much and the OP already said that they are following them. Just because this is a game does not make stalking right. Do you know how creepy it is to have people follow you? To have them stand next to you no matter what you do? Watching your every move? Having to close down your houses for public use because you know that they might come in to watch you further? (And no I dont RP)

I do hope you will never get into a situation like that yourself, especially if that person or the people try to make you look bad to others at the same time..when they return with alts to try to befriend you again so they can hurt you again and again..but if you do remember to not complain because seemingly thats totally fine..

[Mochamonarch]

If you're at public places there will always be players interrupting you, intentionally or unintentionally. Where do we draw the line.

Simple, I'll tell you:

The line is drawn when your behavior is a deliberate/planned action with the intent of causing disruption, frustration, grief, annoyance, and distraction without the consent of the victim involved, and if the action(s) persists after being told to cease.

That's what griefing is. What Gothic Dolly is describing, is greifing.

A griefer or bad faith player is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways. -Wikipedia

Spamming emotes at people who are trying to roleplay, even after being asked to stop, is considered griefing. and if they leave their emote messages on, it can be considered chat spam too. "sitting on a bench RPers claimed" is not griefing, as they can simply ask you to move, and you can move. However, sitting in their spaces, refusing to leave when asked, and then getting up to follow them only to occupy their future sitting areas repeatedly with the explicit intent of annoying them is griefing.

Dolly, I see you around a lot in Ul'dah, so I hope things work out. Sorry you have to go through this bologna.