[SPOILERS] The Fate of Ascians

[Alleo]

The thing is people have not mentioned is the WoL is a Shattered Ascian, what happens when we become full again? And will our friends accept us.

Well it might be nitpicking but we are not Ascians. All Ascians are ancient ones but not all ancient ones are Ascians. Only those 13 who summoned Zodiark are called that so we are not one. Also why should they not accept us?

About topic: I am not sure. I always thought we would be completely destroying the souls of them thus ereasing them from existence. (Since they can raise Ascians that are split reborn souls on shards too) Of course it could just be that we do need bigger methods to simply kill them unlike us who can die by normal ways but we also killed Zenos and the problem was that his soul could still come back and retake his body. So if their souls also still exists then what stops them from coming back either? Thats why I think that tragically we do need to truly take out the souls so that they wont ever come back.

I've been thinking that this should actually be the next area the story should tackle. What was actually ending Ascian civilization and why? B/c, if Zodiark is the seal on that event, its only logical that it will resume if we remove him. And that's be a wonderful case of "nice job breaking it hero", but I'd still like to avoid it if possible.

Well we dont need to remove him. As far as we know he will always stay in his sleep as long as the shards exist. (That of course is on current information which can change later) Thus our main goal would be to take out Elidibus as the last perfect soul and with that there would be no Ascians there that could raise back the broken Ascians and thus we would stop the rejoining.

[Jaywalker]

Of course it could just be that we do need bigger methods to simply kill them unlike us who can die by normal ways but we also killed Zenos and the problem was that his soul could still come back and retake his body. So if their souls also still exists then what stops them from coming back either? Thats why I think that tragically we do need to truly take out the souls so that they wont ever come back.

I think I mentioned on a different spot of the thread, but I actually suspect that using a blade of light on an Ascian might have the effect of sundering that individual's soul. Not destroying, but splitting in the same way that Hydaelyn split souls originally--possibly just in half though rather than fourteen pieces. Split souls have more limited abilities and amnesia on past lives as Amaurotines. Whether that is a better or worse fate in the eyes of Ascians remains up in the air, but as a player who thinks there is value in certain limitations I actually think it would be a mercy. Probably the best fate they could ask for there, but one they would never willingly take. If they weren't actively trying to genocide people would make for a weird ethical question, but since they are imo it would address a lot of issues very neatly imo.

Well we dont need to remove him. As far as we know he will always stay in his sleep as long as the shards exist. (That of course is on current information which can change later) Thus our main goal would be to take out Elidibus as the last perfect soul and with that there would be no Ascians there that could raise back the broken Ascians and thus we would stop the rejoining.

I could see people disagreeing with me on this on maaaaaaany fronts, but imo and as the path I'd personally envision for WoL I'd run with that quote "To ignore the plight of those one might conceivably save is not wisdom--it is indolence."

Since Zodiark is the will of the star rather than the star itself, I think he might need to be destroyed while in pieces to free the souls trapped within. Souls within, coming from split fragments of Zodiark, would in turn be fragmented--which in turn would potentially protect them from the Terminus event and allow them to reincarnate. They wouldn't be their original selves, but they wouldn't be trapped in limbo anymore and would have the opportunity to experience life again. Since seven rejoinings have happened and the void is a wreck, that would probably amount to the source having a big boss fragment, the void having a big boss fragment (by virtue of excess darkness and stupid environment), and all the rest being standard sundered-Zodiark size.

The reason the Ascians kept running into resistance was near as I can tell that they were insisting on complete souls to resurrect those sacrificed as they were originally, which could only be managed by rejoining Zodiark. Rejoining Zodiark requires genocide. Frankly idek if the souls would have been the same after that misadventure anyway.

All that said though, if the principle they have in mind for getting souls back from Zodiark is sound and if the principle I described is sound, Lahabrea really might be out there somewhere in a half-digested state. Hard to say lol.

[ScarletDawn]

Well it might be nitpicking but we are not Ascians. All Ascians are ancient ones but not all ancient ones are Ascians. Only those 13 who summoned Zodiark are called that so we are not one. Also why should they not accept us?

About topic: I am not sure. I always thought we would be completely destroying the souls of them thus ereasing them from existence. (Since they can raise Ascians that are split reborn souls on shards too) Of course it could just be that we do need bigger methods to simply kill them unlike us who can die by normal ways but we also killed Zenos and the problem was that his soul could still come back and retake his body. So if their souls also still exists then what stops them from coming back either? Thats why I think that tragically we do need to truly take out the souls so that they wont ever come back.



Well we dont need to remove him. As far as we know he will always stay in his sleep as long as the shards exist. (That of course is on current information which can change later) Thus our main goal would be to take out Elidibus as the last perfect soul and with that there would be no Ascians there that could raise back the broken Ascians and thus we would stop the rejoining.

Well given the fact your companions mention the first shadowy giant they meet they call an Ascian so there is a stereotype with their view however they do begin to sympathize with these people even question our motives to save the first and stop the rejoining, now i feel that the last Ascian Elidibus now knows what we are and i think he might plan to corrupt us in a way since we are still shattered he might find a way to control us or some how bend our will. Hence why i feel like the scions might turn on us if we seem to align with him.

Maybe i feel like the bad guys should win for once.

[Delily]

Well given the fact your companions mention the first shadowy giant they meet they call an Ascian so there is a stereotype with their view however they do begin to sympathize with these people even question our motives to save the first and stop the rejoining, now i feel that the last Ascian Elidibus now knows what we are and i think he might plan to corrupt us in a way since we are still shattered he might find a way to control us or some how bend our will. Hence why i feel like the scions might turn on us if we seem to align with him.

Maybe i feel like the bad guys should win for once.

He can’t corrupt us, not if the theory that we’re a shard of the ancient that summoned Hydaelyn is true. More than likely he’s going to try to manipulate Zenos into trying to kill us, and find some other ways to kill the scions.

[Alleo]

Well given the fact your companions mention the first shadowy giant they meet they call an Ascian so there is a stereotype with their view however they do begin to sympathize with these people even question our motives to save the first and stop the rejoining, now i feel that the last Ascian Elidibus now knows what we are and i think he might plan to corrupt us in a way since we are still shattered he might find a way to control us or some how bend our will. Hence why i feel like the scions might turn on us if we seem to align with him.

Maybe i feel like the bad guys should win for once.

There is no piece of information in the story that shows that he would be able to somehow control us just because we are a reborn Ancient one. Also the scions even knowning that Emet is an Ascian still did not outright tried to kill him and they are a reasonable bunch of people.

Also why should they win? That means that all the people we just saved on the first and all the billions of more people on the other shard would be killed. And lets not forget that they too plan to sacrifice every remaining person on the source too, including us. Even Emet who seemingly new the Ancient one was still quite ready to outright kill us and he even stated that he would take us out of history completely if he had the time travel power.

I think I mentioned on a different spot of the thread, but I actually suspect that using a blade of light on an Ascian might have the effect of sundering that individual's soul. Not destroying, but splitting in the same way that Hydaelyn split souls originally--possibly just in half though rather than fourteen pieces. Split souls have more limited abilities and amnesia on past lives as Amaurotines. Whether that is a better or worse fate in the eyes of Ascians remains up in the air, but as a player who thinks there is value in certain limitations I actually think it would be a mercy. Probably the best fate they could ask for there, but one they would never willingly take. If they weren't actively trying to genocide people would make for a weird ethical question, but since they are imo it would address a lot of issues very neatly imo.



Since Zodiark is the will of the star rather than the star itself, I think he might need to be destroyed while in pieces to free the souls trapped within. Souls within, coming from split fragments of Zodiark, would in turn be fragmented--which in turn would potentially protect them from the Terminus event and allow them to reincarnate. They wouldn't be their original selves, but they wouldn't be trapped in limbo anymore and would have the opportunity to experience life again. Since seven rejoinings have happened and the void is a wreck, that would probably amount to the source having a big boss fragment, the void having a big boss fragment (by virtue of excess darkness and stupid environment), and all the rest being standard sundered-Zodiark size.

Well we will see if its ever stated but I still believe that we outright destroy their souls. Otherwise as long as one of the three (thus Elidibus now) is still there, there could be a chance that a part of their soul are coming back as Ascian Overlords.

With Zodiark there is the problem that the Ascians and some of us speculate that these souls still exist in there but we simply dont know it. Seemingly he needed fuel to undo the catastrophe and later to save the planet. Why would he need their souls as fuel if their souls are still there? What did he use as energy then? If all he needed was some part of their aether then they could have just transfered some of their vast powers to him without being killed but seemingly they needed their souls for it. And seeing how the ascians are tempered and the promise of their people being brought back would lead to more power for Zodiark..well I could see the possibility that they cant be saved.

[Savagelf]

I have theory look at each age these age had warrior of light rise up each time the source absorb more of the other worlds piece here is my theory what if the warrior of light who maybe an ascian but her or his soul was divide into 13 shard each time more shard of her soul was gather to the source allow Hydrilian to bring more it back to life. I been theorized the the being that you once where was one ascian that gave they life on they own will to bring Hydrilian to life. Hydrilian touch indivual she leave her bless on them so by this way you won't be able be control by Zodiark. you gave your life will for creation of Hydrilian in this way she gather your soul back together know the only way to oppose Zodiark is use one that gave her life. each part of warrior of light was bless so in way you would be immune ever more to Zodiark effect because each piece of warrior of light has been bless but each time the rejoin happen another warrior of light came to aid those in source more shards of warrior of light where gather to the source

[Jaywalker]

Well we will see if its ever stated but I still believe that we outright destroy their souls. Otherwise as long as one of the three (thus Elidibus now) is still there, there could be a chance that a part of their soul are coming back as Ascian Overlords.

With Zodiark there is the problem that the Ascians and some of us speculate that these souls still exist in there but we simply dont know it. Seemingly he needed fuel to undo the catastrophe and later to save the planet. Why would he need their souls as fuel if their souls are still there? What did he use as energy then? If all he needed was some part of their aether then they could have just transfered some of their vast powers to him without being killed but seemingly they needed their souls for it. And seeing how the ascians are tempered and the promise of their people being brought back would lead to more power for Zodiark..well I could see the possibility that they cant be saved.

Fair 'nuff! XD For what it's worth I have 100% predicted stuff incorrectly before haha. I was very, very doubtful that a more beast race aesthetic would be playable (let alone as cat people) but lo and behold it happened. Win some, lose some. At the end of the day we can all only theorize as best we can given info available and see how things develop.

I'm a little unsure on the overlord situation in part because at a certain point in soul division and amnesia idek what that process would look like. And I mean Elidibus is also under significant pressure.

But omg, idk that it would happen but it would be wild plot-wise if we found amnesiac reincarnated Lahabrea or Emet-Selch then had to play keep-away with Elidibus trying to rejoin them. I respect your skepticism, but I'm so unspeakably suspicious of Emet-Selch's clone horde lol.


And you're right on us not really knowing if the souls still exist or what state they'd be in! The difference between souls and aether is also something that seems a little ambiguous rn. Thordan said one thing, lore on Pixies and the Undead says another, the situation with Haurchefant and Ysayle says another... there's a lot of ??? going on.

I personally am not into soul destruction as a concept on many, many fronts--some just reflecting my own spiritual beliefs. Overall though the idea of that happening especially with recent revelations would leave a bad taste in my mouth. It's a level of crushing hopelessness and mercilessness on a massive scale that imo would feel inconsistent with the game overall. It also strikes me as lacking closure in many ways.

Again, I could end up wrong and just not liking the outcome. But got my theory for now and near as I can tell (especially with the lyrics for Tomorrow and Tomorrow) there's a reasonable possibility there. There's reasonable possibility for loads of stuff haha. Just gotta wait and see.

[Kaliesto]

I think the Devs are planning to make us time travel to that failed timeline where the WoL failed because it would be the only way for Elidibus to fully awaken Zodiark, so I guess we may end up seeing a destroyed version of the Source.

(though this all speculation).

[Alleo]

Fair 'nuff! XD For what it's worth I have 100% predicted stuff incorrectly before haha. I was very, very doubtful that a more beast race aesthetic would be playable (let alone as cat people) but lo and behold it happened. Win some, lose some. At the end of the day we can all only theorize as best we can given info available and see how things develop.

Oh dont worry, I also just speculate. We simply dont know enough about that to know the full truth and SE could completely change that anyway if they want to. So who knows maybe all of your theories might be the right ones at the end.

Right now I will remain in the camp that we might never see Zodiark at all because for me this might mean that more shards are destroyed and calamities on huge scales had to happen on the source. Zodiark having small shards might be a possibility but they are also still sleeping and we have no way to travel to other shards right now. (And how horrible would it be to get teased all these new shards but all we do is visit their moons v_v.) I also wonder if destroying shards of him would really help these souls.

About souls: I agree we have lots of different things happening with that but at least we do know that souls can split, they can return together (and seemingly one part ceases to exists which is shown with Minfilia) and they are able to break apart! Ryne mentions how our souls was breaking under the light but rejoining with Ardbert healed it. That makes it really sound like a soul can be destroyed with enough power on it. (Which is kinda what we do with Ascians)

[Rannie]

Truly one of the greatest intellectuals of Amaurot. A master of all creation magic, and a talented orator as well!

And now one of the greatest appetizers in the history of eorzea... just ask Thordan