[SPOILERS] The Fate of Ascians

[Daralii]

There seems to be a single fact people here are skipping over, Emit-Selch himself has said ascians view the inhabitants of the Source and the 13 shards as not being alive.

So it may entirely be possible that they get taken into the lifestream and split up to join Hydaelyn's order as new people. But yes the possibility also does exist that dead is dead.

The only one I can have some expectations of returning as he was is Lahabrea.

Why would Lahabrea come back? Elidibus confirmed that he was dead. He got eaten by Thordan, and since Ascians are just pure aether without bodies, a primal should be able to eat them easily.

[Nalien]

Did somebody say "Lahabrea lives"? *heavy breathing*

Technically his aether was absorbed by the Eye of Nidhogg on the Ascalon (Thordans sword), rather than being "eaten by Thordan", the theory is that his aether in some way managed to survive while being distinctly him while being put in that battery and perhaps leaked out into the various people who've been intimate with Niddys Eye since. Most notably would be Estinien, but we also have the Eye being used to summon Shinryu, and Zenos melding with the Primal. The idea is that a bit of Lahabrea-aether lingers about in various people as a result, and will one day be made whole again... Zenos and Estinien now standing in the same room, with Gaius there too, the man who has the biggest bone to pick with Lahabrea... Ho Hum... Whatever could happen next....

Honestly though, even I'll say he is dead. Shame too, because Amaurot lauds him such high praises, yet all we ever saw of him was an incompetent cackling villain who died a most unsatisfying and lame death... Even Ascian Prime, which we might now take as some of his highly skilled Creation Magic, seems to pale in comparison to what Emet did, solo...

[Jaywalker]

There seems to be a single fact people here are skipping over, Emit-Selch himself has said ascians view the inhabitants of the Source and the 13 shards as not being alive.

So it may entirely be possible that they get taken into the lifestream and split up to join Hydaelyn's order as new people. But yes the possibility also does exist that dead is dead.

Thought about this for a bit, two things that are throwing me a little. First, I think the question will be explored on how the Ascians are incorrect about us not really being alive. They need to have good intellectual reasons behind their arguments as millenia-old (if tempered) scholars, but that doesn't mean they've reached the right conclusion. The Ascians are pretty biased in their own right.

Second thing is, the "dead is dead" idea seems like it rolls very specifically in the vein of "dead is oblivion, nothingness, being erased from existing in the most complete way possible". That concept is very specifically nihilist, and to me feels like it would be a bizarre exception within the FFXIV universe and would also not fit with the tone of closure, peace, and even beauty when Emet-Selch died. Those things are subjective yeah, but I mean they had had him dissolve upon death into a collection of scattering lights to pretty music.

Why would Lahabrea come back? Elidibus confirmed that he was dead. He got eaten by Thordan, and since Ascians are just pure aether without bodies, a primal should be able to eat them easily.

In fairness that's not totally accurate--it's been confirmed that aether and souls are separate and that the soul can re-gather aether post-death sometimes if their will is strong. If Thordan hadn't been destroyed, let alone immediately after eating Lahabrea, I'd have been pretty positive he was just 100% out by virtue of primal aetheric digestive juices or whatever eroding whatever will lingered in his soul. Rn I'm personally ??? on the whole thing, he could be basically anywhere and in any state. For all we know he basically got the equivalent of spiritually projectile vomited when Thordan died.

Something else nagging at me, there might be a way to free the souls of the Ascians who sacrificed themselves to fuel Zodiark without demanding the sacrifice of new creation. Thing is, Zodiark isn't the star itself so much as artificially ascribed will provided by Amaurotines specifically to combat the Terminus event. If Zodiark is destroyed, theoretically at minimum the souls contained within Zodiark would be dispersed back into the life cycle.

The problem then becomes that no one really knows, definitively, what caused the Terminus event. We as players have theories and speculations but the characters in-game have no idea and we don't know as players if our theories are correct of not. If conditions have not otherwise changed for the Amaurotines in particular, there is no reason to think the Terminus event wouldn't just resume.

And because the Ascians haven't been considering the newer races as truly alive, they haven't been able to consider that the way to avoiding Terminus might full well lie in accepting limitations. Everything in their plan seems like it ties to a "have our cake and eat it too" philosophy where they've just been trying desperately to avoid dealing with Terminus and what it might mean for them long-term. They're very change-resistant.

[ScarletDawn]

The thing is people have not mentioned is the WoL is a Shattered Ascian, what happens when we become full again? And will our friends accept us.

[DJMau]

The thing is people have not mentioned is the WoL is a Shattered Ascian, what happens when we become full again? And will our friends accept us.

Well...seeing as we're not walking around with a stick up our butt and repeatedly calling everyone inferior and unfit for life...and actively fighting against forces that threaten death against the remaining 8 shards I'd say they'll be fine with us.

[DJMau]

Well...seeing as we're not walking around with a stick up our butt and repeatedly calling everyone inferior and unfit for life...and actively fighting against forces that threaten death against the remaining 8 shards I'd say they'll be fine with us.

Wait...6. Can't count

[Alleluia]

The problem then becomes that no one really knows, definitively, what caused the Terminus event. We as players have theories and speculations but the characters in-game have no idea and we don't know as players if our theories are correct of not. If conditions have not otherwise changed for the Amaurotines in particular, there is no reason to think the Terminus even wouldn't just resume.

And because the Ascians haven't been considering the newer races as truly alive, they haven't been able to consider that the way to avoiding Terminus might full well lie in accepting limitations. Everything in their plan seems like it ties to a "have our cake and eat it too" philosophy where they've just been trying desperately to avoid dealing with Terminus and what it might mean for them long-term. They're very change-resistant.

I've been thinking that this should actually be the next area the story should tackle. What was actually ending Ascian civilization and why? B/c, if Zodiark is the seal on that event, its only logical that it will resume if we remove him. And that'd be a wonderful case of "nice job breaking it hero", but I'd still like to avoid it if possible.

[Jaywalker]

Well...seeing as we're not walking around with a stick up our butt and repeatedly calling everyone inferior and unfit for life...and actively fighting against forces that threaten death against the remaining 8 shards I'd say they'll be fine with us.

Lmao the shade! XD It's so strong!

In fairness, our companions actually seem fine with the shades of original Amaurotines despite them being literal figments of Emet-Selch's memory. There are also points where various party members, namely Ryne and Y'shtola, even voice sympathy for the stick-up-the-butt Ascians. Doesn't mean we'll roll over and let them kill us all obviously, but the situation they're in is pretty crap.

We also have precedent for our party being chill with members of races/civilizations that are hostile (like the Garleans) provided those individuals aren't actively trying to murder us and/or are making efforts to help. Special shout out to Nero for managing to make friends after turning from being a literal Tribunus. Even more special shout out for the alliance with Gaius when he held sway over Ala Mhigo before Zenos and was one of the main bosses in ARR. Guy went buddy-buddy with Alphinaud and saved his life. Lowkey would not be surprised if he wound up getting control of the Empire down the line in light of recent events.

As an aside, I'd like to raise the possibility real quick that Emet-Selch knows deep, deep down that he's guilty of genocide across thousands of years and has been hurting the fragmented/reincarnated souls of his people. He just tells himself we're not truly alive/the rejoining will save everyone and be worth it in the end. Otherwise the guilt would wreck him beyond recovery. His line about not letting it all be for naught had me especially suspicious on this front. The Amaurotines have a horrendous track record with repression as is so it's not like the guy wouldn't have had practice. He basically made himself into someone who would have been considered completely horrifying and unacceptable by everyone and everything he mourns and just has to keep telling himself that's a price worth paying if it means saving them.

[Gula]

The thing is people have not mentioned is the WoL is a Shattered Ascian, what happens when we become full again? And will our friends accept us.

The ascian we used to be isn't us. Just as Ardbert is not us nor warring triad kid who's name I can't spell. Imagine having 13 brothers and sisters and 1 being a vegtable (the void). You are of the same blood (in this case soul), but far from the same person despite coming from the same, whole source.

[SenorPatty]

Lmao the shade! XD It's so strong!

In fairness, our companions actually seem fine with the shades of original Amaurotines despite them being literal figments of Emet-Selch's memory. There are also points where various party members, namely Ryne and Y'shtola, even voice sympathy for the stick-up-the-butt Ascians. Doesn't mean we'll roll over and let them kill us all obviously, but the situation they're in is pretty crap.

We also have precedent for our party being chill with members of races/civilizations that are hostile (like the Garleans) provided those individuals aren't actively trying to murder us and/or are making efforts to help. Special shout out to Nero for managing to make friends after turning from being a literal Tribunus. Even more special shout out for the alliance with Gaius when he literally held sway over Ala Mhigo before Zenos and was one of the main bosses in ARR. Guy literally went buddy-buddy with Alphinaud and saved his life. Lowkey would not be surprised if he wound up getting control of the Empire down the line in light of recent events.

As an aside, I'd like to raise the possibility real quick that Emet-Selch knows deep, deep down that he's guilty of genocide across thousands of years and has been hurting the fragmented/reincarnated souls of his people. He just tells himself we're not truly alive/the rejoining will save everyone and be worth it in the end. Otherwise the guilt would wreck him beyond recovery. His line about not letting it all be for naught had me especially suspicious on this front. The Amaurotines have a horrendous track record with repression as is so it's not like the guy wouldn't have had practice. He basically made himself into someone who would have been considered completely horrifying and unacceptable by everyone and everything he mourns and just has to keep telling himself that's a price worth paying if it means saving them.

Nah, he doesn't feel guilt at all. He's desperate to get back everything he lost and he has no remorse to his actions because from his perspective, we're incomplete, something he shows overt disgust time and time again( "moral relativism", remember? His quote). Multiply that by the factor of time and you got a apathetic godlike entity who only shows true emotions when it comes to his home and his own people. Genocide means nothing to him because in his eyes, not only we are unworthy but we're an affront to his perspective on existence because of the price his people paid.

Lot of people ingame and the forums feel bad for him and all that and felt bad killing him. His tragedy is sad to me but I don't feel bad about killing him at all because no mattwr how sad of a backstory a person has, I will never feel terrible about killing that person to protect my family, my friends and my home.