SE needs to do more to help bad players

[Xatsh]

First off it is not SE's job to make ppl GIT GOOD. That is up to them. If they refuse to improve and are just horribly underperforming they should be excluded from content simple as that. Sounds toxic but it is not really.

To comment on a few things.

Whms hits for 6000-7500 on mobs for a non-direct hit/non-crit during a pull per holy. and around 13500-15000 per noncrit/dh hit on glare. That is actually quite alot of dmg. It is not dps lvl dmg at all but it is still not something small. If it makes ups 15-25% of the overall aoe dmg well that is how much faster you clear the dungeon. Same thing on bosses if you are only doing 5-8% of the total dmg on a long boss fight yea it is a smaller % amount, but that is still millions of dmg that was dealt that would not of been otherwise in that time frame.

As for aoe or not to aoe it is a simple calculation. Is the overall dmg from aoe (Dmg potency from Aoe X number of mobs) higher then single target. If the aoe is say 120 x 3 = 360 potency per attack is higher then the single target of 300... then aoe is more dmg. I see alot of blms and rdms aoe 2 mobs for example that is a massive dps loss overall, I also see the same amount single target large pulls to see "Big Numbers" but this is a massive dps loss as well.

In general alot of ppl do not take the time to truly learn their class, would not surprise me if less then 33% of the playerbase spends time on a practice dummy at all when getting a job leveled. I have outdmged numerous dps on whm in dungeons. Again you cannot help people who do not take time to learn themselves. It is like taking a test without studying before hand... on an easy test yea you can pass with a 70-75, but are you doing good... nope. Now take the final without studying... you get a 40-50 and fail. Can you clear dungeons playing extremely sub optimally yep easily maby with some issues on bosses... can you clear harder content playing sub optimally... nope not at all.

People getting hit by the same mechanics over and over after multiple attempts, that is 1 of 3 things.

1) The persons net or computer is utter garbage. IN that case they need to upgrade their stuff or try WtF, Pingzapper, or something like that if there is not better internet where they live.

2) They are just really bad and do not care (You cannot fix this).

To note if they are new to a fight I would expect them to make mistakes on mechanics.

3) They are a newer player and used a skip potion.... I personally expect ppl to know the basics of fights in FFXIV post lvl 50. Aka what does this AoE style marker mean (Do not stand in the shinny, Spread, Groupup, line aoe), Kill adds during dps checks, do not stand on shinny things on the ground (unless meteor markers). If you are new I would mention you are new to the game and if you could have mechanics explain. 19/20 groups will take a sec on each boss to explain what to do. Community is actually good about this on FFXIV. All in all If you are a brand new player and lvl skip.... DO THE TUTORIALS AND ASK QUESTIONS!!!!!!! Do not constantly kill your group.

[van_arn]

This is why you simply join a company of like minded players. If someone is not up to your skill level, changing the game isn't going to suddenly boost their skill level. I mean, they aren't bad really, they just lack certain skill sets to complete said needs. Prime example, ran The Ghimlyt Dark, healer kept dying non stop on last boss. I was patient, far more patient then DPS as they left one by one, to explain each mechanic, posting in chat when said mechanics were about to happen.

The healer still kept dying. Consistently. Changing the game would not fix that I am afraid. We finally beat it, by myself as the Tank and a lone DPS living to the final phase as others died, resulting finally in a victory. I do understand the frustration some experience though, since keep in mind, The Ghimlyt Dark has a 90 minute dungeon timer, and we beat it with 17 minutes left.

Alternatively you could've kicked the healer a long time ago and not left them with the impression they're fine as a healer. After all, they got the clear.

By the time they reach that dungeon they should know how to push buttons, or at least push buttons well enough to not make a fool of themselves like that. There's just no excuse.

It might feel "nice" to keep people around like that, but the best thing you can do in this situation for them is to kick them.

[Komarimono]

Alternatively you could've kicked the healer a long time ago and not left them with the impression they're fine as a healer. After all, they got the clear.

By the time they reach that dungeon they should know how to push buttons. There's just no excuse.

I never have, nor ever will kick people trying to do MSQ dungeons. If I'm carrying them through it, so be it. Gunbreaker has high sustain and with movement can ignore or heal through many tank buster mechanics.

The other DPS were dying as well, so not like the healer was the only one at fault. Though it looks complicated, you can avoid 99% of the damage on that fight minus the group wide AoE's, AoE's that I simply healed the surviving DPS player through until final phase.

[Hash_Browns]

Alternatively you could've kicked the healer a long time ago and not left them with the impression they're fine as a healer. After all, they got the clear.

By the time they reach that dungeon they should know how to push buttons. There's just no excuse.

Ya know, I just wanted to say that I use to think this mindset was horrible, and I still feel bad for kicking players who don't know what they are doing at endgame content - but the more I got into the endgame content, the more I started to think like this..

I've seen people not AOEing in level +50,+60, and +70 content, people dying to the most basic mechanics in farm parties. Healers doing 0 DPS in farm parties.. not even current farm parties.. unsynced HW EXs.

[van_arn]

I never have, nor ever will kick people trying to do MSQ dungeons. If I'm carrying them through it, so be it. Gunbreaker has high sustain and with movement can ignore or heal through many tank buster mechanics.

The other DPS were dying as well, so not like the healer was the only one at fault. Though it looks complicated, you can avoid 99% of the damage on that fight minus the group wide AoE's, AoE's that I simply healed the surviving DPS player through until final phase.

You need to learn to kick then, because you're not doing anyone favors by keeping them around. Not them, not yourself, not anyone that groups with them in the future. While those are MSQ dungeons, they've had 70 levels to learn to not be THAT bad.

That's not to say they need to be good; you need to learn to set a minimum threshold of what you'll tolerate. You're hurting them by getting them the clear on that dungeon.

[Komarimono]

You need to learn to kick then, because you're not doing anyone favors by keeping them around. While those are MSQ dungeons, they've had 70 levels to learn to not be THAT bad.

That's not to say they need to be good, you need to learn to set a minimum threshold of what you'll tolerate. You're hurting them by helping them progress that deep into 70.

Honestly I feel anyone leveling an Astrologian is suffering already

They were a casual no company player. Simply wanting to see the story. I see no harm in it. My jimmies were not rustled helping them see said content.

Now, if it's a raid? Yes, I kick without mercy. When raiding in involved, I'm a dirty, cruel, heartless bish.

[Granyala]

Because it is a CHOICE to do that content, not a MUST.

It was a must in order to be able to queue for heroic 5man dungeons in WoW.
Blizzard got plenty of FLAK for that too.

[Connor]

Maybe I’ve just set the bar low but I find that most of my parties aren’t that bad. DPS generally do what’s expected from them, though I’ll admit it’s very rare to find a DPS that will make an effort to use their full kit, particularly utility skills (even simple stuff like Minne / Samba / Tactician). I don’t generally find myself in dungeons with DPS that are refusing to AoE either; in general I find that DPS are fine at DPS, but rarely do anything above and beyond that.
In terms of tanks it’s hard to say because I mostly play Scholar. Since I’m both a healer and a Scholar, it’s pretty easy to cover for weaker tanks. So I’ve never really found myself in a situation where the tank is so bad that I don’t feel like I can compensate it, thought this is largely due to how powerful Scholar’s healing kit is.
Healers, I find, are always the most mixed bag. Mostly I’ll see healers playing at a standard/normal skill level, using healing GCD supplemented with oGCD rather and throwing damage in opportunistically rather than focusing on maximised uptime. But I’ll often see just as many healers that use Medica II / Succor / Aspected Helios then just stand around waiting for something to happen. Honestly, I’d rather have this guy than the Pure DPS Healer that rarely appears. I get that they want to do damage, but when four other players are dead (including the main tank) and I’m out of MP from raising them, I’d appreciate if they helped out lol (regardless of whether it was the dps’s fault).

One thing I can say is that PS4 players really need a straightforward means of measuring our performance. Currently people on PS4 are reliant on PC players to be able to see their own DPS, and we have no easy way of seeing just how the party we were in performed. I could be paired with a top tier player and a jump potion sprout, but unless someone else provides me with the information I really have no idea what the actual difference between them is (besides what I can see them doing). The developers have made DPS the most valuable thing in the game by design, but apart from getting a general sense from Stone, Sky, Sea, PS4 players have no real way to measure it

[LunarEmerald]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. A bad player will forever be bad as long if they don't care about improving. If they do care then it's likely they will ask others or people online for help. There's honestly not much the developers can do.

[Ardox]

Or you could teach them