Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I am rather eager to dispel the notion that the rationale they gave cannot be questioned, so here ya go. Keep going down and follow the chain.

So...you link me to a post made by someone who claims to work in the Industry (Im not calling them a liar, but unless I missed it they didn't post any qualifications or History...so it feels like we are just taking his word for it) And basically he said stuff that people agree with.
I can't take anything he posted in Stock unless he works for SE or is on the FFXIV workforce. Because it more sounds like "What he THinks" is going on, and not so much actual "facts"
And we already have plenty of people who have said the same things he said. In smaller posts

[Keridwyn]

Fair enough, although if they went with a midlander/highlander type split with Raen males staying as they are and Xaela adopting such a model, I think it'd work just fine. That, or giving Au Ra such a build whilst re-working Elezen so as not to be a write-off to most players interested in a build like theirs.

See here's the problem we get into going back and editing the old races. If you're doing more than tweaking proportions (i.e. making Elezen necks look less awkward) you're going to have a bad time because a lot of people picked their race because the aesthetics were close enough to what they wanted. While a lot of clans are just palette swaps that doesn't change the fact that in your suggestion anyone who is currently playing a male Xaela and doesn't want to be broader and beefier would be given the choice between keeping their scale color and possibly skin tone or keeping their body build. If SE were to go back and do updates like that the best way would be to add a third clan, giving the option without the impact. That, however, is a lot of work and possibly more than they'd undertake.

[Mochamonarch]

Agreed. I think it should be standard across the board at this point. I'm fairly optimistic that it'll be one of their customisation options if they're added, though.

I highly doubt we're going to be given a muscle slider, most likely they're going to have one body type like the other races and we're just getting an ears slider. One thing I noticed about ff14 is that they like to keep their "uniqueness" as tightly clutched as possible. This was evident when people asked for a moonstone/obsidian carbuncle glam option, and SE refused saying it was unique to the NPS and would make them less special to give them to PCs.

Obviously the muscle slider is the Hyur unique option, so I don't think they're going to give it to the Viera as it would make Hyurs less unique customization wise, we'll get to have some big-ass ears though.

[Lauront]

So...you link me to a post made by someone who claims to work in the Industry (Im not calling them a liar, but unless I missed it they didn't post any qualifications or History...so it feels like we are just taking his word for it) And basically he said stuff that people agree with.
I can't take anything he posted in Stock unless he works for SE or is on the FFXIV workforce. Because it more sounds like "What he THinks" is going on, and not so much actual "facts"
And we already have plenty of people who have said the same things he said. In smaller posts

He actually did comment on his qualifications and employment history, here.

As to whether someone needs to work specifically for SE to express doubt on what Yoshi is saying, as opposed to having experience with other firms... I believe the former is setting the bar so high as to be nearly impossible to surmount, given how small a sample of the population that is, nevermind how much smaller the subset willing to comment on the matter.

See here's the problem we get into going back and editing the old races. If you're doing more than tweaking proportions (i.e. making Elezen necks look less awkward) you're going to have a bad time because a lot of people picked their race because the aesthetics were close enough to what they wanted. While a lot of clans are just palette swaps that doesn't change the fact that in your suggestion anyone who is currently playing a male Xaela and doesn't want to be broader and beefier would be given the choice between keeping their scale color and possibly skin tone or keeping their body build. If SE were to go back and do updates like that the best way would be to add a third clan, giving the option without the impact. That, however, is a lot of work and possibly more than they'd undertake.

I was stating what I had wish they had done from the outset. You will note I said a man can dream in regards to going back to rework Au Ra to that extent, i.e. it's beyond the point of no return.

Adding a third clan could work but yes, they would parcel it off in the "too much work" area. The most we can hope for is a muscle tone slider, given their past comments on the subject.

[Theodric]

I highly doubt we're going to be given a muscle slider, most likely they're going to have one body type like the other races and we're just getting an ears slider. One thing I noticed about ff14 is that they like to keep their "uniqueness" as tightly clutched as possible. This was evident when people asked for a moonstone/obsidian carbuncle glam option, and SE refused saying it was unique to the NPS and would make them less special to give them to PCs.

Obviously the muscle slider is the Hyur unique option, so I don't think they're going to give it to the Viera as it would make Hyurs less unique customization wise, we'll get to have some big-ass ears though.

WoW, for all its flaws, is adding an increasing amount of options for player characters over time. I don't doubt that FFXIV will need to follow suit at some point for fear of being left behind - especially with the older models looking rather dated next to some of the unique NPC models and newer environments.

[Keridwyn]

Obviously the muscle slider is the Hyur unique option, so I don't think they're going to give it to the Viera as it would make Hyurs less unique customization wise, we'll get to have some big-ass ears though.

As a longtime femroe player I can state that femroes also have a muscle slider so it's not just Hyurs! I believe it's actually given to any race that doesn't possess adjustable ears or a tail, taking up the slot that slider uses instead.

I was stating what I had wish they had done from the outset. You will note I said a man can dream in regards to going back to rework Au Ra to that extent, i.e. it's beyond the point of no return.

Adding a third clan could work but yes, they would parcel it off in the "too much work" area. The most we can hope for is a muscle tone slider, given their past comments on the subject.

Apologies but it sounded less like the outset and more like them re-editing the models now. Sorry for misinterpreting you.

[Mochamonarch]

See here's the problem we get into going back and editing the old races. If you're doing more than tweaking proportions (i.e. making Elezen necks look less awkward) you're going to have a bad time because a lot of people picked their race because the aesthetics were close enough to what they wanted. While a lot of clans are just palette swaps that doesn't change the fact that in your suggestion anyone who is currently playing a male Xaela and doesn't want to be broader and beefier would be given the choice between keeping their scale color and possibly skin tone or keeping their body build. If SE were to go back and do updates like that the best way would be to add a third clan, giving the option without the impact. That, however, is a lot of work and possibly more than they'd undertake.

There was an incident exactly like this on Neopets (any neopets vets in this thread is going to know exactly what I'm talking about) where they updated the art of the pets to make room for the new cash shop items. this meant there was a non-consensual conversion of 90% of the playerbase's pets that happened once the update dropped. This lead to a surge of angry players that never quite let it go, and since there was a small percentage of pets that didn't get the art updated, those pets became a status symbol as the last remnants of the past they had.

Where I'm getting at is, SE is most likely never going to overhaul any character races drastically without giving the choice to keep the old ones, it would upset far too many people and lead to a huge can of worms that they would never recover from. No mater how much I dislike Elezen pencil necks, or beefy body types, there are people out there who love them; and to rip that away from them would be downright cruel.

WoW, for all its flaws, is adding an increasing amount of options for player characters over time. I don't doubt that FFXIV will need to follow suit at some point for fear of being left behind - especially with the older models looking rather dated next to some of the unique NPC models and newer environments.

I think i remember Squeenix saying...somewhere, that they wanted to do just that. Make the models look more HD or something, I can't remember. I don't know if it was a passing wistful comment or not. but I do agree, the older models' ages are beginning to show. GW2 did an amazing job on their character customization as well, though their methods of achieving that level customization leaves a lot to be desired.

As a longtime femroe player I can state that femroes also have a muscle slider so it's not just Hyurs! I believe it's actually given to any race that doesn't possess adjustable ears or a tail, taking up the slot that slider uses instead.

Ah, I stand corrected. Though the point still stands that they most likely will leave muscle sliders to non kemonomimi races.

[Ayuhra]

In terms of updating old races I always thought things like muscle definition sliders, more customization options etc could at the very least be introduced by adding third clans.

Elezen do need slightly bigger heads though.

[Lauront]

For aspects like muscle definition sliders they and so on they could avoid the third clan route. I think it's when more substantial changes to the physique come into the picture that you'd require something like a third clan.

I think i remember Squeenix saying...somewhere, that they wanted to do just that. Make the models look more HD or something, I can't remember. I don't know if it was a passing wistful comment or not. but I do agree, the older models' ages are beginning to show. GW2 did an amazing job on their character customization as well, though their methods of achieving that level customization leaves a lot to be desired.

They certainly want to - and reiterated that desire both during the EU Fanfest art panel and also during the guest meetings with Yoshi-P, however this is the challenge besetting them.

As costly as it may be, not doing it may end up being an even bigger liability. We'll see what they have to say closer to 6.0, however realistically if they do want to upgrade the textures in time for that they'll need to make a decision soon.

[Gwenorai]

There was an incident exactly like this on Neopets (any neopets vets in this thread is going to know exactly what I'm talking about) where they updated the art of the pets to make room for the new cash shop items. this meant there was a non-consensual conversion of 90% of the playerbase's pets that happened once the update dropped. This lead to a surge of angry players that never quite let it go, and since there was a small percentage of pets that didn't get the art updated, those pets became a status symbol as the last remnants of the past they had.

Where I'm getting at is, SE is most likely never going to overhaul any character races drastically without giving the choice to keep the old ones, it would upset far too many people and lead to a huge can of worms that they would never recover from. No mater how much I dislike Elezen pencil necks, or beefy body types, there are people out there who love them; and to rip that away from them would be downright cruel.




I think i remember Squeenix saying...somewhere, that they wanted to do just that. Make the models look more HD or something, I can't remember. I don't know if it was a passing wistful comment or not. but I do agree, the older models' ages are beginning to show. GW2 did an amazing job on their character customization as well, though their methods of achieving that level customization leaves a lot to be desired.



Ah, I stand corrected. Though the point still stands that they most likely will leave muscle sliders to non kemonomimi races.

I'm a little confused, it's their game and they can do what they desire with it. They wish to update the models then they can do so because, in the end, it's their vision of the game and not ours that takes precedence. I know this argument all too well since I'm a staff member on a rival site of 'Neopets'. If the update is an overall improvement in quality then it should be done and not be held back. Updates for character models should simply be adding in sliders for those who want specific traits of old races. Such as the Elezen long neck, while those who would prefer a shorter neck. As long as it's not drastic and is a huge improvement in quality, then it should be done. But things such as textures and changes to animations - eg) Elezen walking a little too stiffly, should also be given the go-ahead to upgrade. The old races look terrible in comparison to the new ones. Textures are the first thing that should be given an overhaul.
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Also, as stated from being from a rival site of Neopets with a large userbase. This happens regardless in every single update to a pet website. It boils down to kids/teens and young adults mostly being entitled. A dev add something in, people will complain and want it toggled. A change in colouration of a specific pet or a variation of the pet? More complaining, etc. It's never-ending.

Toggles aren't much of an answer either as they can be very taxing on the system, especially when it comes to models.