Shadowbringers Monk is grueling and torturous in Dungeons - A regression to 2.0 monk

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

Imagine caring about how fun dungeons are in 2019

Imagine caring about story mode dungeons and having a job that struggles to maintain it's stacks creating the most abysmal leveling experience.

Whilst I'm indifferent to dungeons in general, no job should feel like a slog when playing current story dungeons this late on, which monk currently does and can be very off putting for newer players. The monk playerbase is already small, dungeons being antagonistic towards monk's kit an unfun leveling experience and more likely for players to just drop the job.

[MasyMasy]

The sad fact of the matter is that GL's design and the whole identity of the class revolving around it restricts the class from any evolution it can possibly get. Every other class got something that added onto their rotation or made it a lot cleaner, but MNK stayed exactly the same and got two niche skills that have minimal use and add zero evolution to the class. I was never okay with having to spend a dreadfully long CD that when optimized does better doing other things (spamming leaden fist now) or spend 30 seconds manually reramping to get my stacks back if a fight (or a slow tank) demanded that I dropped them. MNK didn't have to change drastically either, I was 100% content with pressing the same 6 buttons for my rotation ad infinitum, that's basically how every class in the game works anyways, but it feels awful to get nothing new while everyone else gets at the very least something. I'd much prefer that they changed GL to not be so punishing, and be a timer like every other timer in the game but I'll even take a 30 second greased lightning timer at this point.

[reyre]

The sad fact of the matter is that GL's design and the whole identity of the class revolving around it restricts the class from any evolution it can possibly get. Every other class got something that added onto their rotation or made it a lot cleaner, but MNK stayed exactly the same and got two niche skills that have minimal use and add zero evolution to the class. I was never okay with having to spend a dreadfully long CD that when optimized does better doing other things (spamming leaden fist now) or spend 30 seconds manually reramping to get my stacks back if a fight (or a slow tank) demanded that I dropped them. MNK didn't have to change drastically either, I was 100% content with pressing the same 6 buttons for my rotation ad infinitum, that's basically how every class in the game works anyways, but it feels awful to get nothing new while everyone else gets at the very least something. I'd much prefer that they changed GL to not be so punishing, and be a timer like every other timer in the game but I'll even take a 30 second greased lightning timer at this point.

So then what willmake MNK different from any other class? Gl design actually doesnt prohibit evolution, a lack of imagination, vision and teamworks does restrict the evolution from the class. Kind of what you are doing. Either way personal perspective aside, there are some good proposition regarding MNK soem more feasible than others and most of them mesh well with GL design and MNK core identity.

[Rockette]

Imagine caring about how fun dungeons are in 2019

Imagine going through pages of forum posts and resurrecting a 3 week old dead thread to make a snarky comment.

Let me ask you a fair question since you had some time to do some reading, it seems.

Do you think that anything that is written here directly related to Savage raiders or players at a high level is going to get much visibility/traction on this forum? Or do you think perhaps my original post was written the way it is in order to cater to a general audience?

But, sure, I'll humour you.

Imagine having to install a server tick overlay on your ACT to have the ability to properly execute the standard 5.0 monk opener.

[MasyMasy]

So then what willmake MNK different from any other class? Gl design actually doesnt prohibit evolution, a lack of imagination, vision and teamworks does restrict the evolution from the class. Kind of what you are doing. Either way personal perspective aside, there are some good proposition regarding MNK soem more feasible than others and most of them mesh well with GL design and MNK core identity.

Monk's core identity before they shifted into GL being the most important thing ever used to be fast hitting potency lacking attacks. It wasn't until recently that they shifted the focus away from this. GL used to feel like a thing that just felt natural going with the class, but in shadowbringers it feels like the whole identity, since we got three whole traits and skills dedicated to it.

Things I'd like to see assuming we have to keep the stacking buff:

A one button GL stack, Like anatman, but doesn't need a server tick.
A rework of the Chakra system, remove the RNG on RNG needed for accumulating chakra, increase the pace, and lower TFC's potency to be reasonable in exchange for machine gunning them out
Complete rework of tornado kick, every 30s at max GL grants a tornado kick.
Change to SSS, OGCD, higher damage, adds a stack.
Riddle of Earth, one button save.
PB back to 60s
Removal of fist stances
Bring back howling fist and steel peak

[reyre]

Monk's core identity before they shifted into GL being the most important thing ever used to be fast hitting potency lacking attacks. It wasn't until recently that they shifted the focus away from this. GL used to feel like a thing that just felt natural going with the class, but in shadowbringers it feels like the whole identity, since we got three whole traits and skills dedicated to it.

Things I'd like to see assuming we have to keep the stacking buff:

A one button GL stack, Like anatman, but doesn't need a server tick.
A rework of the Chakra system, remove the RNG on RNG needed for accumulating chakra, increase the pace, and lower TFC's potency to be reasonable in exchange for machine gunning them out
Complete rework of tornado kick, every 30s at max GL grants a tornado kick.
Change to SSS, OGCD, higher damage, adds a stack.
Riddle of Earth, one button save.
PB back to 60s
Removal of fist stances
Bring back howling fist and steel peak

I do agree with most of the changes everyone is proposing and they are needed, however i do have a question, Monk core identity was to hit fast, not strong, that is true but how did we hit fast? i mean by what means? wasnt it always by building up and maintaining GL? now you say that in ShB MNK is dedicated to GL unlike before when it was dedicated to GL, and your argument for this is because in ShB MNK has more traits and skills dedicated to GL, but is this true? I mean we got Anat and SSS as skills and a weird GL4 one, but if i look before in ARR 2 of 3 MNK traits and skills were Literally GL and PB, then in HW Mnk got nothing GL related (TK doesnt count), in SB MNK got RoE, RoW (after a while) and more spammable PB. I mean if i were to look at this data objectvely MNk has always have a very clear focus on Gl, and its not recent, with the exception of HW, MNK has always been GL prime, or maybe im not looking at this properly?

So by "they shifted into GL being the most important thing..." you mean like it always has?

[Shurrikhan]

I don't understand it. We finally got our armor crush, / 20 second huton refresh, enochian button, blood of the dragon refresh. Then they took it away and left in the part everyone universally hated. I understand they didn't want Tornado kick rotation to be a thing so why not fix tornado kick into a skill that doesn't directly contrast with the rest of Monk's Greased Lightning based kit.

I still don't think of it as a contrast so much as a coolly synergetic way to make a cooldown. I miss being able to viably using TK mid-combat. I'd have much preferred that they simply:

1. Fix SkS as a stat.
2. Fix Tornado Kick's potency bug so it's now tightly competitive rather than obligatory.
3. Increase FoW's Movement Speed bonus to 15%, that of Rogues, and have it add 5% Attack Speed. No GL4 added; Steel Peak and Howling Fist retained instead.
4. Change Riddle of Wind into a 30-second CD that repeats your last hit at 50% damage or duration. Quick-cross-DoT, quick-burst, quick-GL.
5. Remove aspected Tackles or make something decent out of them, such as Earth Tackle knocking you back 10 yalms if the enemy cannot be moved, Wind Tackle unlocking a second charge-stun at no potency (RoW, but only for mobility/utility), and Flame Tackle including an AoE component.

[Physic]

I do agree with most of the changes everyone is proposing and they are needed, however i do have a question, Monk core identity was to hit fast, not strong, that is true but how did we hit fast? i mean by what means? wasnt it always by building up and maintaining GL? now you say that in ShB MNK is dedicated to GL unlike before when it was dedicated to GL, and your argument for this is because in ShB MNK has more traits and skills dedicated to GL, but is this true? I mean we got Anat and SSS as skills and a weird GL4 one, but if i look before in ARR 2 of 3 MNK traits and skills were Literally GL and PB, then in HW Mnk got nothing GL related (TK doesnt count), in SB MNK got RoE, RoW (after a while) and more spammable PB. I mean if i were to look at this data objectvely MNk has always have a very clear focus on Gl, and its not recent, with the exception of HW, MNK has always been GL prime, or maybe im not looking at this properly?

So by "they shifted into GL being the most important thing..." you mean like it always has?

monk wasn't really fast not strong, they have the same speed up ninja has, until huton. Samurai also has one. Monk was about building up power/speed. Not the fastest burst, but once it gets going, pretty decent. It was always a problematic design though.

[Niyuka]

So right now, between MNK, NIN and SAM, assuming you dig the playstyle, which is the safest bet for the future?

[silverdragontyr]

If you want straight damage? Sam easily. It will be the most damage for the lowest maintenance/effort, and the identity of the class has stayed mostly solid.