Pulling the bosses In dungeons as DPS a thing now?

[Vulcann]

Currently you really are discount dps, aggro is now braindead easy to hold and everything else you do is incredible straightforward. It's not absurd, it's now the truth.

can DPS hold agro reliably?

can DPS handle current content bosses? without being over-geared?

until i see that CONSISTENTLY then we tanks are not discount dps

[DawnSolaria]

Currently you really are discount dps, aggro is now braindead easy to hold and everything else you do is incredible straightforward. It's not absurd, it's now the truth.

mobs do more damage than ever before in dungeon, dps cant even be a discount tank its kinda sad.

[Tint]

A DD who pulls is nothing different than a tank who rotates the boss for no reason, cleaves the party or in general people who live in the mindset the healer has to adjust because they are too lazy to do mechanics. And yes, also tanks who need 30 seconds to pull a boss.

They are trolling their fellow players.

[Doozer]

As others have said, aggro is so easy now that there is no reason to sweat someone getting ahead of a tank in normal dungeons.

See it's statements like this that show me that people don't understand why some tanks get irritated by a DPS pulling mobs. It's not that getting aggro back is hard. It never was. The problem is the DPS feeling entitled and in such a hurry that they'll see the tank pull a group or two, then go "hm, I see that they intend to tank this way, but I'm going to disregard that and do what I want anyway" without any sort of communication. If a DPS asks me to do larger pulls, that's one thing. If they just use sprint and run ahead of me to make things go faster, that shows me that they don't respect me or my choices.

It's like getting in a taxi as a passenger and then reaching over and slamming your foot on the gas. You're not driving. You can ask them to hurry, but you're not the one that controls how fast it goes.

If you want to pull and speedrun through dungeons, be a tank. The end.

[Misutoraru]

If you want to pull and speedrun through dungeons, be a tank. The end.

I really dislike dps pulling
They are squishy and when don’t always turn the boss the fight way and cleaving everyone in party, and it is just rude, if dps feel the fight is going bit too slow just ask

[Valic]

I still hate it more if a healer does it. Dps can die if they do it, my healer though.... shoot, we'll all die if they die SO I GUESS I'M PULLING WHAT THEY WANT TO PULL. If I don't, they'll complain why I didn't and I'll say "why are you in such a hurry" and they get mad. I hate when the healer believes its their ruling to sprint forward and take aggro of things then guide it to the tank as if they knew the tank could handle it or they're so stuck up their own butt that they think their healing > EVERYTHING.

[Kaitoo]

I still hate it more if a healer does it. Dps can die if they do it, my healer though.... shoot, we'll all die if they die SO I GUESS I'M PULLING WHAT THEY WANT TO PULL. If I don't, they'll complain why I didn't and I'll say "why are you in such a hurry" and they get mad. I hate when the healer believes its their ruling to sprint forward and take aggro of things then guide it to the tank as if they knew the tank could handle it or they're so stuck up their own butt that they think their healing > EVERYTHING.

*gets literarly mad at the same power trip of healers that he does as tank to other players*
pottery

[Machka]

If you want to pull and speedrun through dungeons, be a tank. The end.

I think you missed the part where I said I am a tank. My statements are from a tank, for tanks.

As a tank you are not the driver of a taxi, nor are you the captain of the ship. You are one part of a team. The fact that you see yourself as the one solely in charge when tanking just shows that you have a twisted view of a tank's role in a party.

Being a tank doesn't mean you suddenly have some special status. If you are a tank, you chose that role and its responsibilities on your own. You want people to 'respect you and your choices'? Earn it by being a good tank and performing your job with excellence. No one owes you anything simply for being a tank and doing your job. If you think they do, then you have an entitled mindset.

If you want to be the leader of a party then you need to be able to lead. If you are going slower than the rest of your party wants to go then you are holding them back. You don't need to speedrun if you don't want to, but party members also don't need to go at your pace if they don't want to. A good tank is able to to adapt to the performance of their party and allow the team to be as effective as possible.

My point with the statement you quoted is that tanks now have such powerful aggro tools that a party member running ahead and pulling more is no more than a minor annoyance that can be solved with the press of a single button. A leader and team player would make use of those tools to keep a team functioning optimally instead thinking/feeling angry about how they're not getting their way. OP did not act like a leader or team player, by their own account of things. Instead of stepping up to the challenge, they threw a tantrum. Those are the actions of a tyrant or a toddler, not a leader.

[OrdaDa]

In the end, it's more about communication problems.

As a tank I always do big pulls, and if I trust my healer, wall-to-walls. Personnaly I do think that I'm going at the right pace for the group, not too fast for the healer to handle but not too slow for the DDs to get mad. Plus, the right CD-management makes those kind of pulls easy to handle for everyone. And if people want me not to do those big pulls, I'll adjust. It's part of the job to be able to suit your group's needs in terms of pulling.

But that's for the packs. When I arrive to the boss, I pull when the other 3 are here (waiting for the NIN to do their Huton thingy). It's as simple as that. For now I don't have as much problems as you guys with DDs pulling, but if I see someone pulling more than once before me, I first tell them not to do that, because it's rude and I'm going as fast as I can for the group, and if they continue, it's a votekick. It's as simple as that.

See, DDs can argue how much they want.

"I may lose my stacks" - BOTD is on a 30-second basis and can litteraly be refreshed before losing your eyes (but you need a good ping), Anatman exists, Umbral Soul is great, SMN doesn't have much stack-y things etc etc.

"It'll be faster" - Yeah. You've gained approx. 2 seconds of your time. Grats.

"Tanks are discount DDs" - More or less. But in the end, DDs that don't take a ton of damage to every attack in the game. Which is why they are called TANKS.

Pulling before a tank isn't respectful, no matter how much you want to see it. And it's not a matter of "they can take the aggro back extremely fast", it's not the problem. It's just a matter of manners. If you need something from the tank, ask him. With Shadowbringers, there's a LOT of new tanks, newcomers, beginners that are fearful of the job. Just pace along with them. Let them know they can tank more mobs, because they can. By antagonizing them and disrespect them, you'll create an atmosphere that FF players don't want to see, a tryharding, unfriendly place to play with randoms (basically, Counter Strike or Call of Duty). So please, random DDs. If your tank doesn't suit you, talk to them and help them comprehend their job (if you know it in the first place). It's as simple as that.

[Tigore]

We're not getting anywhere berating each other like this. Every role's job is to support the party. Everyone should be working together to ensure the run goes smoothly.

I can understand some tanks taking it a bit slow at the start since they do have to gauge what the party can do if no one speaks. I have been in situations where my fellow damage dealer is single targeting on a pull of 10 enemies. It made me cry a little inside because the enemies were starting to become a burden to the tank and healer living too long. I also see big pulls becoming hindered because a DPS can't cool their jets with the first group being dragged. I can understand DoTting or using buff attacks to prep for the mega AoE as long as they watch their threat. But when the other DPS and I were indeed melting the group and letting the tank have aggro, the tank responded with a much bigger pull for us.

Sometimes a little kindness goes a long way. If one wants respect, they must offer the same gesture as well. If the tank could stand to pull faster and possibly with more enemies, the best advice I can give is to communicate with them. Passive aggressive pulls might serve to do the opposite since you might be telling the tank they can't drag the first group to the second anymore. As I said earlier, spreading out the enemies makes holding aggro way harder than it should be. Plus the DPS and Healer players with aggro obviously take more damage and burden the Healers. If the tank really is an entitled brat, then I won't argue with kicking them. DPS may have long queue times, but this is different with DPS already in the dungeon.