Who said this and can it apply to healers?

[MadeOfMush]

(2/2)
Also, I'd like to state that I am particularly sympathetic to people who want more resource management and less emphasis on ABC; the argument that doing something is better than doing nothing is greatly flawed when what you're doing is seen as tedious busy work, also the assumption that when you're doing nothing you're not engaged. There are ways to handle downtime poorly, just as there's ways to handle ABC poorly (Healers being a good example of this, imo). I also do not believe these philosophies are incompatible, jobs can be designed very specifically; one could potentially include resource management focused classes in the game alongside ABC classes, much of the classes already manage cooldowns, meters, and gauges more class defining designs is not far off.

Anyway, sorry if this post is poorly constructed, I'm typing this on a phone at work. I'd probably be more thorough and address more points but these are the things off the top of my head.

[Toystore]

Dead mobs do no damage. The faster they die, the less damage overall they do and the less healing is required.

Oh I'm not against pushes where there's a cycle of moves and the added dps helps push a boss into a new phase before the boss's script goes back to another deadly attack earlier in the cycle. In that case you're absolutely right that pushing into a new phase to avoid a rotation of moves can actually prevent a lot of damage.

You also don't need anything other than a dot and a filler nuke like we have now to perform that function. Exactly what we have now so that's obviously not the goal people who push the healer dps meta are looking for. So this isn't the issue here. It goes beyond that into the realm of people who like to dps and that being at odds with the mild pure healers who can understand a linear conversion of downtime to 1 nuke + 1 dot we have now and the sides of pure healers who don't want to dps and the green dps that want every metric of the role to be based on damage parses.

It's a 4 quadrant problem. So my question now is within the mild 2 quadrants of pure healers who don't mind converting downtime to damage and the mild quadrant of healers who like contributing dps:

What is wrong with the 1 nuke and 1 dot we have right now for this purpose?

[Jerichai]

What is wrong with the 1 nuke and 1 dot we have right now for this purpose?

By that logic...why do healers need more than one single target heal and an AoE heal? I think you’d agree that would be quite boring and provide limited avenues for optimization.

Also it really bothers you that there are healers who are perfectly capable of doing DPS and healing at the same time, doesn’t it? Consider how much you’re trying to cast them as villains in your silly little personal narrative.

[Mutemutt]

By that logic...why do healers need more than one single target heal and an AoE heal? I think you’d agree that would be quite boring and provide limited avenues for optimization.

Well, I mean, if it's design it to heal, you'd expect their healing tool kit to have much more tools than their dps. Sorta like how the dps classes have lots of dps skills and very little else.

[Billythepancake]

By that logic...why do healers need more than one single target heal and an AoE heal? I think you’d agree that would be quite boring and provide limited avenues for optimization.

Also it really bothers you that there are healers who are perfectly capable of doing DPS and healing at the same time, doesn’t it? Consider how much you’re trying to cast them as villains in your silly little personal narrative.

I dont think people like this recognize why healers were so unique and fun in this MMO to so many people. How many MMOs let the healers not only have a rotation, albeit a simple one back in SB, but allow them to use it in any content they do? There's nothing special about a healer that heals, any MMO let's you have that, but it was so refreshing to me that, not only was I allowed to dps, I was expected to dps.

Healers out there that strictly did dps were a problem, I can agree and attest to that, nothing pissed me off more than when I got a Chad, but these changes dont feel like the solution, it just feels like it's punishing everyone for the actions of a few.

[Urthdigger]

Oh I'm not against pushes where there's a cycle of moves and the added dps helps push a boss into a new phase before the boss's script goes back to another deadly attack earlier in the cycle. In that case you're absolutely right that pushing into a new phase to avoid a rotation of moves can actually prevent a lot of damage.

You also don't need anything other than a dot and a filler nuke like we have now to perform that function. Exactly what we have now so that's obviously not the goal people who push the healer dps meta are looking for. So this isn't the issue here. It goes beyond that into the realm of people who like to dps and that being at odds with the mild pure healers who can understand a linear conversion of downtime to 1 nuke + 1 dot we have now and the sides of pure healers who don't want to dps and the green dps that want every metric of the role to be based on damage parses.

It's a 4 quadrant problem. So my question now is within the mild 2 quadrants of pure healers who don't mind converting downtime to damage and the mild quadrant of healers who like contributing dps:

What is wrong with the 1 nuke and 1 dot we have right now for this purpose?

As has been stated before, as healers get better at healing, they are rewarded with more and more downtime. Especially when you're at a higher level of play where you're mastering your class, you can easily DPS the majority of the fight while still keeping everyone safe. People just want the thing they do for most of the fight to be more rewarding. Personally I'd love to see any DPS additions also help support by allowing for higher heals, oGCD reduction, or buffing the party or debuffing mobs. Just something other than spamming a single button and occasionally a second one because they're the only two buttons that are useful when everyone is topped off.

[RopeDrink]

It's incredibly frustrating because you already have a role.

You say "everyone has a role", I say "everyone in the Trinity has the same goal" > to beat that content. Each corner of the Trinity has an aspect to prioritize above all else, but so long as said content provides you ample time, freedom and means to contribute to beating the content, be it within or apart from your primary function, then the decision to not make use of that opportunity is sub-optimal and lazy at its best for as long as those non-priority buttons exist, provided that contribution does not come at a cost to your reason for being there. There is no excuse whatsoever other than some variation of "I just don't want to" or "Can't be bothered" given just how much space is given.

I am a Healer. My job is to Heal. If I can do more than that, I will without a second thought, because anything is better than nothing. Except overhealing or idling, of course.

There is little to no concern over MP (unless you are like the WHM I got yesterday who quite literally spammed MedII every 6 seconds and did nothing else, becoming the first WHM I have seen in years who struggled with resources). One measly Holy would have been infinitely more beneficial than all of the spam they performed for the entire run.
There is little to no damage-intake without mass pulls or higher content, and even then, fights like EX Titania are a case of only needing to throw out heals for 20% of the entire battle if people remotely understand mechanics. Given the scope of quiet time, what reason is there to stand around? Just throw stones at it. Nothing to lose!

If you are not against 'pushes' or DPS checks (which most content has, including enrage timers), then it is somewhat contradictory to raise an issue with any other kind of DPS that helps you beat the content faster in general, provided it does not impede your primary function (which it doesn't). You'll find most people with venom towards non-DPS Healers would be perfectly fine if said Healers just threw a DOT. Something. Anything. I am only (personally) annoyed by the type of Healer who enters a dungeon, throws their HoT's and then proceeds to just stand there with a derp look on their face as the rest of the team are putting in actual work.

[Jerichai]

Well, I mean, if it's design it to heal, you'd expect their healing tool kit to have much more tools than their dps. Sorta like how the dps classes have lots of dps skills and very little else.

And they could heal with two spells if the game was designed around it. It would be an incredibly bland experience, but doable.

And no one is asking to have more DPS skills than heals...so let’s just nip that false argument in the bud, shall we?

[Miiu]

Like so many people keep saying I guess it demands repeating since the pro pure healer side keeps ignoring that point.

Most of the healers here would be fine with doing little dps. We're not in it for being top on the dps chart or because we have to proof something. We're playing healer for different reasons. For example: Faster dungeon queues :P
Sorry had to make that joke. In all seriousness most of the endgame content is just boring as healer except for new fights when people don't know what to do and we're constantly busy trying to undo the mistake others made and making it not impact the outcome of the fight. But the better people get with the fights the less important our job becomes.
The downtime between the parts where we just have to heal because of the fight mechanics becomes longer and longer. So by not succumbing to boredom we decide to do dps because that is all we have left.

The truth of the matter is that with the current game design. This is not gonna change. They'd need to fix core gameplay aspects of the game and I doubt that will happen in the near future.
Maybe next expansion we see a bigger change to how healers are supposed to work because what Shadowbringer has shown is that SE realized that they have a healer problem. They only haven't found out yet how to fix it.

[Ahrijlaken]

The ennemy of humanity is the boredom.

The problem is not how much damage we deal but how boring the "rotation" are (in fact we just spam 1 button, there is not rotation ). We just need enough DPS to be able to solo fates/hunts confortably.