[Spoilers] I’m irrevocably Unimpressed

[Seraphor]

It's an absurd question. I've never heard of civilization without water. Does this mean that a civilization is impossible without water?

And again, if you think sentience is a critical prerequisite of civilization, you probably are misunderstanding what "sentience" even means.

Fictional examples are valid.

Sentience means being able to experience life or your own existence, feel sensations, and react to them.

You might be confusing it with Sapience.
Sapience is a step further, it's being able to acknowledge that you are "alive", being able to question your own existence.

Most animals are Sentient, whether or not any other animals are Sapient is still up for debate.

[MomomiMomi]

Fictional examples are valid.

Sentience means being able to experience life or your own existence, feel sensations, and react to them.

You might be confusing it with Sapience.
Sapience is a step further, it's being able to acknowledge that you are "alive", being able to question your own existence.

Most animals are Sentient, whether or not any other animals are Sapient is still up for debate.

Exactly. Most animals are sentient as far as we know. Yet we have no qualms about killing most of them to further our needs and wants. For some animals, we can't be sure if they are sentient or not, yet we have no problem killing them without giving them even a single thought.

But the Ascians are willing to sacrifice life for their own goals, and suddenly people are up in arms about it. The way I see it, we do not have the moral highground. We are no better than them.

What makes it wrong is not any absolute morality. It's wrong because to us, it's wrong. But there are things we do not consider wrong, but to those we do them to, they are wrong.

It's all moral relativism.

[Seraphor]

Exactly. Most animals are sentient as far as we know. Yet we have no qualms about killing most of them to further our needs and wants. For some animals, we can't be sure if they are sentient or not, yet we have no problem killing them without giving them even a single thought.

But the Ascians are willing to sacrifice life for their own goals, and suddenly people are up in arms about it. The way I see it, we do not have the moral highground. We are no better than them.

What makes it wrong is not any absolute morality. It's wrong because to us, it's wrong. But there are things we do not consider wrong, but to those we do them to, they are wrong.

It's all moral relativism.

Because we're making a distinction between Sentience and Sapience, whether or not all those arguing that point fully understand the correct terms.

We're not just Sentient, we're Sapient.

[MomomiMomi]

Because we're making a distinction between Sentience and Sapience, whether or not all those arguing that point fully understand the correct terms.

We're not just Sentient, we're Sapient.

And I am arguing that it's wrong because those things are sentient. They're not sapient, but they are sentient. Therefore, it's wrong.

If you want to draw the line at sapience and ignore sentience, then on what grounds are you doing so? What makes that the line that must be crossed before it's wrong?

The Ascians, similarly, have concluded that we do not have what it takes for it to be considered wrong to use us in the way they have planned to. We have sentience, and sapience. That's not enough, though. They have decided you need something more. Just the way that most people have come to the conclusion that sentience, or even life itself, alone is not enough.

[Seraphor]

And I am arguing that it's wrong because those things are sentient. They're not sapient, but they are sentient. Therefore, it's wrong.

If you want to draw the line at sapience and ignore sentience, then on what grounds are you doing so? What makes that the line that must be crossed before it's wrong?

I happen to be vegetarian, but that's another issue.
That's like saying we shouldn't fun Cancer research while people are dying of starvation in Africa.

The Ascians, similarly, have concluded that we do not have what it takes for it to be considered wrong to use us in the way they have planned to. We have sentience, and sapience. That's not enough, though. They have decided you need something more. Just the way that most people have come to the conclusion that sentience, or even life itself, alone is not enough.

Correct...?

The Ascians motives are justifiable... to them.
That doesn't mean they're not still villains.

[MomomiMomi]

I happen to be vegetarian, but that's another issue.
That's like saying we shouldn't fun Cancer research while people are dying of starvation in Africa.

And I happen to believe that killing plants is wrong. I do not believe that sentience is required. But you don't see me arguing that I have moral authority over the Ascians.

[Seraphor]

And I happen to believe that killing plants is wrong. I do not believe that sentience is required. But you don't see me arguing that I have moral authority over the Ascians.

Now you're just being contrarian.

Hitler's motives were justifiable to the Nazi's.
You can't take the 'moral relativism' argument to its extremes, or it becomes meaningless.

[MomomiMomi]

Now you're just being contrarian.

Hitler's motives were justifiable to the Nazi's.
You can't take the 'moral relativism' argument to its extremes, or it becomes meaningless.

Hitler was our equal. The Ascians are not. They are akin to gods compared to us.

[Seraphor]

Hitler was our equal. The Ascians are not. They are akin to gods compared to us.

And their world is already dead, ours is not.

Should we sacrifice humanity to resurrect Cthulu?

[Gwenorai]

Hitler was our equal. The Ascians are not. They are akin to gods compared to us.

So what you're saying is. Oh, this race is superior to us in every single way, thus we must bow down and take our beatings like the good little insignificant sapients we are.

I guess by this means by a fashion that every single movie where Aliens come to harvest humans for their own means so they can continue living is fine and dandy. And they're certainly not evil for harvesting our lovely life essence to use as fertilizer. Remember folks, next time we have another war of the worlds, to roll over and show your tender tummy to our alien overlords.

Mate, what you're spewing out is called 'elitism.'