[Spoilers] I’m irrevocably Unimpressed

[Saefinn]

I loved how the story turned out. And the Ascians have done their share of winning, and they won multiple times, just in the end, we got our victory. We lost at the end of ARR's patch cycle, so it's not like we always win in this game (though I think ARR's wasn't well done). And we were at a stalemate at the end of Stormblood. So actually, it's nice to have a huge grandiose victory of epic proportions akin to how a classic Final Fantasy game would end, because that's what it felt like, a true Final Fantasy finish. Plus, we have several patches to go and we have loose threads. We have victories and losses to go as is.

Are the Ascians evil? Well, I honestly think SE made the Ascians better villains this time round because they've not given us a textbook Disney kind of "good" and "evil", they're not that effective. I do evil because I am evil *evil cackle*. True villains have depth, they have a motive and it is not in one's nature to simply "do" evil for the sake of it being evil. Even if you believe in moral absolutism, somebody doesn't do "evil" for the sake of doing bad, but because in their mind it is good, it is right, it serves some purpose that is positive to them, even if we find it morally abhorrent or is judged morally abhorrent in an absolutist philosophy. How they've approached it is realistic, if anything.

In his mind Emet-Selch is justified because he doesn't consider people to be alive, but a shade. And thus is justified in how treats life from his perspective. Interestingly, the background to all this reeks very strongly of Plato's allegory of the cave. He had the idea that everything in our world is a shadow cast of a perfect 'form' and thus we exist in an imperfect realm. But if one were to follow Plato's idea, we're all still living, breathing things with our own lives, as shadows of this perfect world, we still exist. The people of all worlds in the FFXIV universe are alive and thus a genocide would be putting an end to all those lives, so one could argue that what the Ascians are doing is bad, very bad.

Whilst they may be reborn into a perfect being, their life is still at an end, there is death, there is still loss, there is still pain and suffering and they would not retain any thought or memory of themselves and it is all taken from them without consent. Imagine believing in reincarnation and justifying murder because they will live on in a new form (possibly a better form if their karma is good)? Or believing in heaven to justify murder because they will move onto eternal paradise? Though in the latter scenario, you'd still be yourself, which is different to here.

We are imperfect and maybe incomplete beings in the game's universe, but we are still beings. I get it creates a philosophical and moral conundrum, but I think the fact it does that is a sign of good writing, especially given the cues to philosophy made it feels intentional.

[MomomiMomi]

\We have plenty of ways to know whether or not they are sentient. Civilizations are actually quite easy to detect. We understand that bees have an organized hierarchy but that most of their actions are autonomic, not sentient.

Civilization has nothing to do with sentience.

[DJMau]

What if their goal is a lie? Bringing back their own civilization I mean. A lie they told themselves justify their actions at reviving Zodiark. We know for certain they they're all tempered so...why would they need a cause to do so? To me at least, it sounds fishy. And I admit part of it stems from having played a certain Yoko Taro led game.


The beast tribes had a reason for the most part, that being desperation and fear of destruction but the Ascians...don't. Hell apart from us very few even know they exist.

[Edax]

Civilization has nothing to do with sentience.

I've never heard of the concept of a civilization existing without sentience. It's something of a critical prerequisite.

[Alleo]

We also have no way of knowing for sure whether they are sentient or not. And we smash them underfoot regardless, for most people, without a thought.

Why would they say that the other Ancient wanted to leave the planet in the hands of the new life and not be the protector anymore if it isnt sentient life?

And unlike flies we know that the spoken races are sentient so I dont understand the discussion about this. Just because he does not see us a life does not mean we arent. He even goes on and says that we have the same emotions and we do have a soul, just not a complete one. We have memories, can feel, and have our own thoughts. We are alive, the amount of years one could live should not matter in that regard.

[SaberMaxwell]

They have won... Seven times now. Every rejoining/calamity is a win for them.

To add to this, it's a big, irreversible win. We can't win any ground back from the Ascians, if they cause a calamity, they're permanently closer to their goal so far as we know.

[Kallera]

What if their goal is a lie? Bringing back their own civilization I mean. A lie they told themselves justify their actions at reviving Zodiark. We know for certain they they're all tempered so...why would they need a cause to do so? To me at least, it sounds fishy. And I admit part of it stems from having played a certain Yoko Taro led game.


The beast tribes had a reason for the most part, that being desperation and fear of destruction but the Ascians...don't. Hell apart from us very few even know they exist.

I thought they had plenty reason.
"You cannot be entrusted with our legacy" The modern Ascians are faced with destruction, there is only one unsundered left capable of making more Ascians. Destruction, and obscurity, to have that destruction and death be swept under the rug in celebration of the primal that put them in this hell.

[MomomiMomi]

I've never heard of the concept of a civilization existing without sentience. It's something of a critical prerequisite.

You seem to be confusing what sentience means, then.

[Seraphor]

What are some examples of non-sentience civilizations?

[MomomiMomi]

What are some examples of non-sentience civilizations?

It's an absurd question. I've never heard of civilization without water. Does this mean that a civilization is impossible without water?

And again, if you think sentience is a critical prerequisite of civilization, you probably are misunderstanding what "sentience" even means.