Need a Hall of Veteran for skip potion players.

[ForteNightshade]

Jump potions are definitely in the top 10 for the worst things that have happened to this game.

Like it or not, levelling up in RPGs has always been an integral part of the genre. It's something that people (rightfully) take pride in and feel accomplished about. By allowing people to just open up their wallet & buy something that required weeks, or even months of someone's hard work and their dedication like it was a new pair of shoes, is very insulting. It is disrespecting everybody who put that time in by minimizing their strong efforts to a price tag.

I'm sorry but taking pride is leveling is... well, silly. You do you, I suppose, however there is nothing commendable about grinding the same dungeon, FATE or mob endlessly. It require no skill and is an utterly mindless process. Furthermore, if it were such an accomplishment—one you even claim disrespectful to skip. You must equally despise all the buffs provided over the years to both streamline and speed up the whole process. My Twintania character only recently finished Toto-Rak despise being just shy of 40. My BFF hasn't even finished Titan yet and she's 50. The Road to 60 buff makes what once took quite some time utterly laughable. What about Deep Dungeon? I spammed HoH to level BLM. It's currently level 70 and I still have yet to even start the HW job quest. In fact, when I first started this game, I leveled DRG from 34 to 52 in a single day over the span of ten hours grinding FATEs. I didn't pay a lick of attention to what I was doing. I had Youtube on in the background, listening to a podcast. The only reason I had an idea how the job worked is because I had previously looked up a 60 guide and worked my way back.

Is it cool to have all your jobs max level? Sure. And some people make it their own little personal goal. But it's hardly an accomplishment.

Being able to skip ahead is meant for people who either don't enjoy leveling or simply want to focus on the end game. Plenty of people only care about Savage and Ultimate. They love the dance and challenge raiding provides yet couldn't even name all the Scions. Who cares? Why does it matter their interests align with something else? They're going to skip everything anyway. Jump potions are essentially SE saying, "we already know you plan to hit the escape key for the next 20+ hours. So here's an option to save yourself the time." In a game gated as heavily as FFXIV, Jump Potions are needed. Frankly, I think an ARR skip should be free given how many people wind up quitting before ever reaching HW.

[Halivel]

Standart hall of novice is enough actually? I mean, there is no need to have advanced one for learning basics (such as combo at least).

Also, when you use a potion - there is a cut-scene with a message that it's recommended to use a Hall, and its menu will show up immediately after cut-scene is closed. At least it's like this for new tomes. I know it because I was pissed off with last job under 50 level after leveling 14 of them so I just bought the cursed book. Though The Hall, even if popped up right before your eyes, is still not mandatory (and I doubt there is a way to make it so) so in the end it's up to player's conscience to decide if they're going to do it or not.

[TheForce]

@ForteNightshade
You've completely missed the point, also, your view on this is way too pessimistic. You claim it's so easy to level, yet you literally explained how you spend hours a day doing the same thing in order to do it. Let me inform you that needing to hold essentially gaming marathons for multiple days just to accomplish one thing, kind of means that thing is a big deal. If you need to put that much time and effort into doing it, then there's no way it's as insignificant as you're trying to make it sound. And lastly, why are people willing to spend 50 fricking bucks on it (level +story) if it's not a big deal? Come on.

One should take pride in reaching max level for the same reason that people take pride in beating single player games or even completing a long book/series...it takes dedication. And a lot of it. According to your stance, people shouldn't feel proud of themselves for completing a game like say, Nioh, I mean, all you did was run around and press some buttons, who cares right?

No.

And your logic is flawed as well, how in the world are you going to equate buffs and jump potions? You shouldn't have even tried making this point, it's really bad honestly. At least with a levelling buff, one still needs to actually play the game and experience it. By level 50, you'll know how to LB, you'll know how to teleport, you'll know how to link, etc etc. Whereas with a jump potion, you press a button and that's it, you're now a level 70 character that has less knowledge of the game than a level 5. That's just not okay.

Yoshi P himself has even said he knows that their implementation would (rightfully) anger the older players, so that's why he made them so pricey. You're trying to defend something than even the creator of the game knows is low-key scummy.

And they should make an ARR story skip free? What? Why would the devs want to encourage people to skip the entire first act of the game that sets up so many things and teaches you how to play the game?Final Fantasy 14 does not begin at Heavensward. Please, never try to design a RPG game if this is your mindset. There is grind in this game, it is an MMO. If they can't make it through the relatively simple levelling, then the rest of the game is going to most likely disappoint them.This game cannot appeal to everybody, just accept that.

[HyoMinPark]

Ok, and where in my post did I say this was exclusive to jump potions? With the accelerated leveling progress sub 70 it's completely likely new players never get the chance beforehand, and this is only going to get worse with each level cap increase.

I mean, the post I was responding to was talking about jump potion users. You weren’t specifying that it applied to non-jump potion users—you were specifically targeting potion users. Which is why I pointed out that this also happens with people who did not “bypass leveling”. Leveling doesn’t guarantee they’ll know what to do.

Does it matter if it's p2w or not. No, they bypass leveling and thus have no experience with how any mechanics work. Thus they fail and become a npc for other players to babysit, ruining their experience. Mandatory hall of veterans for level 50 content and above to be completed before they can use the duty finder for said content.

And they should make an ARR story skip free? What? Why would the devs want to encourage people to skip the entire first act of the game that sets up so many things and teaches you how to play the game?Final Fantasy 14 does not begin at Heavensward. Please, never try to design a RPG game if this is your mindset. There is grind in this game, it is an MMO. If they can't make it through the relatively simple levelling, then the rest of the game is going to most likely disappoint them.This game cannot appeal to everybody, just accept that.

There is absolutely nothing in ARR that teaches people how to play the game. There is nothing that teaches tanks how to Provoke/Shirk for tank swaps. There is nothing that teaches people a level 50 rotation (or any rotation). There’s nothing that teaches players how to handle stack mechanics or the get-away mechanic (white marker in A11 that appears on the OT—GA-100). Nothing that teaches healers what cleansable and non-cleansable debuffs look like (they don’t even teach healers how to use Esuna).

The Hall of Novice doesn’t even bring up the other things you’ve mentioned in your post (Limit Breaking—how to do it and when one should do it; how to link items in chat—honestly, a lot of people ask in the NN how to do this, and quite a few are past the base game). It teaches you the bare basics: kill stuff as a DPS/tank/healer, hold aggro as a tank, heal as a healer, and avoid the bad. But it does not teach you anything more than that. And, it’s not mandatory. The MSQ may force direct you to the Hall, but it doesn’t force you to complete it.

The ARR grind is what prompts a lot of players to quit. There’s a different between a grind and a slog of an experience—my first time going through ARR and 2.x, I remember vividly asking my friend when we were getting to HW because 2.x was just that boring. And, eventually, when the game gets large enough, they do have to start offering skips so that players can “catch up” without having to do hundreds of quests (a lot of the early ones being excruciatingly boring). If people enjoy story MMOs, perhaps this won’t be such an issue. But not everyone who plays this game does so for the story. They’ve done much better when it comes to not including needless filler, but I won’t lie and say its not tempting to buy an ARR skip for alts I make.

[Kaitoo]

im only for that if non potion players must also complete that "hall of veteran" with hard synched gear. Cant wait for the screams how they dont get past it

[PyurBlue]

Every time this topic comes up it makes me feel like job guilds were a missed opportunity. Why is SSS locked away at high level? Why don't the guild members actually teach you a rotation? It's so hard for a new player to gauge how well they're doing, you'd think both from a practical and lore perspective that guilds would address this. Changing these things wouldn't make everyone great players since some just don't care to improve whether they skip or not, but I feel like revamped guilds would benefit the people actively trying to learn.

[Kaitoo]

Every time this topic comes up it makes me feel like job guilds were a missed opportunity. Why is SSS locked away at high level? Why don't the guild members actually teach you a rotation? It's so hard for a new player to gauge how well they're doing, you'd think both from a practical and lore perspective that guilds would address this. Changing these things wouldn't make everyone great players since some just don't care to improve whether they skip or not, but I feel like revamped guilds would benefit the people actively trying to learn.

because this a circular problem
USUALLY (not always, but 90% of the time in my experience), if a person cares to optimize/learn their job, they look it up, especially nowadays. Youtube, Balance, Reddit and so on. So if someone truly is interested in learning their job they cant do it without hassle. And while something being ingame would be nice i think it wouldn't be a proper solution to the "problem", because, as i said, people that are going do that are going to that anyways, regardless if its ingame or not.
That's why i said above you that something like that need to be mandatory (like u need to complete it before you can participate in a certain type of content, for example). And from my experience in other MMOs this leads to a ungodly amount of salt and whine.

[Nariel]

I agree so many people need proper job education even without skipping it to begin with.

But they will probably want a potion to skip the training anyway.

[ForteNightshade]

This is a mess. So let's take it point by point.

@ForteNightshade
You've completely missed the point, also, your view on this is way too pessimistic. You claim it's so easy to level, yet you literally explained how you spend hours a day doing the same thing in order to do it. Let me inform you that needing to hold essentially gaming marathons for multiple days just to accomplish one thing, kind of means that thing is a big deal. If you need to put that much time and effort into doing it, then there's no way it's as insignificant as you're trying to make it sound.

Because there is no other way to process? Being forced to do something does not make it an accomplishment. If I want to process the story, I have to level. Granted, I don't actually mind doing so but it's simply a means to an end. I reiterate it requires no skill whatsoever. In fact, you can literally do nothing but spam 123 and you'll eventually hit 80. You're essentially equating a time commitment with an achievement. Clearing Savage or Ultimate falls into that line. Even your first EX Primal can be an argument since they require an understanding of mechanics and how your job functions. At least if you weren't carried. Leveling? Well. There's a reason it's easily exploitable by bots.

And lastly, why are people willing to spend 50 fricking bucks on it (level +story) if it's not a big deal? Come on.

I dunno. It may have something to do with that not wanting to do it. Just a thought.

One should take pride in reaching max level for the same reason that people take pride in beating single player games or even completing a long book/series...it takes dedication. And a lot of it. According to your stance, people shouldn't feel proud of themselves for completing a game like say, Nioh, I mean, all you did was run around and press some buttons, who cares right?

... no, it doesn't. The game practically throws experience at you. Once again, if you can spam a couple buttons, you'll be max level doing nothing but mindlessly AoEing down FATEs. I'm sorry but if you find this an accomplishment, maybe it's time to lift that bar off the ground. Once again, to each their own, however I wouldn't call simply completing a game's story an accomplishment for the same reason I wouldn't say reading through Harry Potter is. That doesn't make the story any less enjoyable, exhilarating or whatever other adjective you fancy but when it comes to games. Unless there is a difficult boss, puzzle or other sort of challenge. Why would it be an accomplishment? They are fun activities you may enjoy but that's it.

Now someone could make a personal goal they aim to accomplish. But that's not the same thing.

And your logic is flawed as well, how in the world are you going to equate buffs and jump potions? You shouldn't have even tried making this point, it's really bad honestly. At least with a levelling buff, one still needs to actually play the game and experience it. By level 50, you'll know how to LB, you'll know how to teleport, you'll know how to link, etc etc. Whereas with a jump potion, you press a button and that's it, you're now a level 70 character that has less knowledge of the game than a level 5. That's just not okay.

How can you insist leveling is an accomplishment worthy of pride... when it's progressively made easier and easier with each expansion? The equivalent would be akin to bragging you beat Titan or Thordan EX unsynced at level 80. It kind of loses its sheen just a little. Regardless, I can learn everything you listed with a five second google search. Or... you know, reading the tooltip? People have cleared Ultimate, the hardest content in the entire game, despite having jumped their character and skipped every cut scene. Meanwhile, I recently had a max level Scholar who still didn't know what Excog, Lustrate or any ability beyond Physick was—even though he leveled the "okay" way. According to you, this isn't possible. It's almost like... jump potions do not inherently impact whether a player will be good or bad.

Yoshi P himself has even said he knows that their implementation would (rightfully) anger the older players, so that's why he made them so pricey. You're trying to defend something than even the creator of the game knows is low-key scummy.

Yoshida does not determine the prices for MogStation items. He has said this repeatedly, usually to the Queen of the MogStation or whatever. All those prices are set by Square Enix. And wouldn't you know it, they base said prices off what other MMOs do. They're expensive because SE likes money. Shocking, I know.

And they should make an ARR story skip free? What? Why would the devs want to encourage people to skip the entire first act of the game that sets up so many things and teaches you how to play the game?Final Fantasy 14 does not begin at Heavensward. Please, never try to design a RPG game if this is your mindset. There is grind in this game, it is an MMO. If they can't make it through the relatively simple levelling, then the rest of the game is going to most likely disappoint them.This game cannot appeal to everybody, just accept that.

Because a large amount of people quit due to the slog of quests they are forced to partake in. There's a reason people keep bringing up ARR needs to be streamlined. The dev team has even commented on how they want to do precisely this... by potentially making much of 2.1 onward into optional side quests. Evidently, the story isn't as precious as you're making it out to be. Furthermore, ARR doesn't teach you a thing. You aren't shown a proper rotation or even told what half your abilities do. You're expected to read the tooltip or a player made guide—all of which someone can do before they even finish downloading FFXIV.

I would rather people have the option to skip ahead to Heavensward so the game is less daunting for people trying to catch up. If they want to take the slow route, awesome! If they don't, a brief synopsis of events can be offered to catch them up. Far better than seeing the myriad of reddit posts where people's friends gave up before even seeing Heavensward. Why? It takes a long time to get through ARR.

[Aomine1992]

I think some of these expected things are a bit much, stuff people do in ex and savage raids arnt things SE can help teach you. Those things come with practice and failing at something.

People always talk about rage quitters but most new/jump potion people I’ve run into take advice well and try to incorporate it.

Hall of Novice is enough but when is it time for SE to stop being held responsible for how bad players are becoming because jump potion or not there are even worse veteran players and what’s their excuse?