Need a Hall of Veteran for skip potion players.

[Insertcoins]

I stand by what I said when level skip potions was introduced that it is the biggest mistake this game will ever make.

And what about the people who played like that before said jump potions? It's not the potions fault... people will be lazy and shitty no matter what is or isn't there. I'm willing to bet those potions aren't even bought by new players anyway and by people who make alts. It's NOT the potions who are at fault. It's the PLAYERS lways has been and always will be. If they were lazy before said pots then they were lazy after. Period.

[NekoNova]

Hall of the Skipped Veteran

[NanaWiloh]

Hall of the Skipped Veteran

More like Hall of the Ill play good to beat this then go back to playing like Garbage.

[Kaethra]

Except, plenty can be done.

All of what you said, already exists. Those who need a refresher, go through earlier dungeons. At their leisure. When I took a break at the end of 4.0 and then came back at the tail end of 4.5. I had a dozen dungeons to learn, and about a year's worth of time out of practice. I literally picked up BLM, a class I hadn't touched since 2.0 and went right in.

I had no issue picking up the new Enochian mechanics and applying them to content I'd never seen before. I don't need a tutorial. I don't need a any of what you suggested. I don't WANT to go through any of what you suggested. So you're going to have to make such content, Optional.

That means you do not see the desired effect.

Good players like me do not need such things. We can jump in wherever and do fine. We can learn things on the fly.

The bad players that you want to make not-bad, will skip the content you suggest too. And will be still bad. You can't make bad players not-bad. That's an impossibility. Even if you made it mandatory. They'll slug through it, and then go back to being bad once they've got you in their group. Because they'll let YOU carry them. And if they're bad enough that they can't get it done, they'll get someone else to do it for them.

You only have two options when it comes to these players. Pick up their slack, or vote kick them and get someone else. Adding anything else, doesn't change that. It just adds extra steps.

But everyone knows this. Lets not hide the true agenda of some of you. Some of you are simply want to see those who skip have 'some' work. They're not sitting through cutscenes, they're not doing fetch quests. This irks some people. So they want to see them have to do something. Something akin to fairness. And I cannot get on board with that. Such line of thinking is under my beliefs immoral, as it contains jealousy and envy. I can't abide that. I'll never get behind that. I'm only hoping that some of you have naivety to blame for such a position. Cause then hopefully a simple discussion will yield results and show that all these little obstacles won't help in the end.

Many of you know I'm correct on this. There's not a single player who skipped who's a good player that struggles with any of the duty finder content. Nothing in the DF is hard enough for the decent player to work through and whether they skip or not is irrelevant. While the same cannot be said of bad players. They're bad because they simply just do not wish to bother. Some of these skip, some don't. The ones who don't are not better for it. We all saw this before skipping was an option.

So lets get away from adding steps to people who purchased a skip. They skipped to play with friends. To get to be with the rest of us great players. Let them be. I promise you the good ones (which there are many), are not hurting you.

[TheForce]

Jump potions are definitely in the top 10 for the worst things that have happened to this game.

Like it or not, levelling up in RPGs has always been an integral part of the genre. It's something that people (rightfully) take pride in and feel accomplished about. By allowing people to just open up their wallet & buy something that required weeks, or even months of someone's hard work and their dedication like it was a new pair of shoes, is very insulting. It is disrespecting everybody who put that time in by minimizing their strong efforts to a price tag.

There is going to be grind in RPG's, it's just how the games operate, and levelling is just going to be one of the more simple grinds you face. If you can't even handle the levelling, then this genre game probably just isn't your cup of tea, because sure you managed to take a shortcut through levelling, but what about the rest of the game? Crafting, raiding, gearing up, gathering, PVP, housing, hunts, the list goes on...
Will you just wait until SE makes jump potions for every aspect of the game? Where does it end? God forbid we ever get to that point, but if we do, everything you do in the game will just be meaningless, and the game's death will quickly follow this.

And just to make it worse, on top of all this, the jump potions don't only give you levels and a completed story, but SE had to sweeten the deal and give out completed side-quests, mounts, gear, and even gil. Truly disappointing. Rewarding people for not playing your game.

[BatLW]

Cute that you think the MQS teaches people how to maintank EX Raids.

[TimeraiderGaranyi]

While not for my main jobs. I do admit buying a small amount of levelskips (ninja, white mage, astro) .. and i still have to agree that it should be mandatory.
I am sane enough to not jump into a dungeon first thing when i have no idea how a job works.
Doesnt mean that others also do that :P

[LilySkye]

they should not be allowed to do any endgame content for like a month or at least have a boosted character icon next to their character names so we can avoid these people

[xbahax92]

Nothing can be done to fix it.

As I said, bad players will always be bad players. Its not lack of experience, its not lack of knowledge, its simply because they are looking to put in the least effort. There's no for fix that.

And any sort of tutorial, or refresher, or whatever... good players simply don't need it. And those that need a placebo effect can simply queue for lower dungeons and work their way up if 'they' choose.

I dont know why you are so adamant about this. Yes bad players will still be bad. But even if there is a small % that will get better after "education" is a win (in my eyes).

Its nonsense to believe that 100% of bad players will stay bad players. Beside, not everyone knows about platforms such as discord to get information about proper Jobs, Rotations and Openers.
We need something in game to actually provide more information on jobs, mechanics, skill chains, status buffs/ debuffs and so on.
Why would I need to tell people to Google about their job instead of directing them to the Hall of Novice, which can be more fun instead of reading a wall of text.

[Kaethra]

Like it or not, levelling up in RPGs has always been an integral part of the genre.

Not always. I've played MMOs where you hit max level rather quickly, in some cases in a single sitting. Games like DCUO, Warframe, and others have short leveling windows. If you play Everquest, there is a dozen (not an exaggeration, as it has 27 expansions total, and they are FULL expansions on level with FFXIV expansions in content) expansions that do not feature leveling content.

So here's the thing. Leveling was a concept started in Pen and Paper RPGs in the 1970s. We have good old Gary Gygax to thank for this system. Its been found in many gaming systems, both video games and in table top that leveling is not the end all be all method of progression. For example, in D&D my friends and I will set our characters at level 6 and exp is simply not part of the game at all. Its by playing the campaign through combat, skill use, and role play that progression is well.. progressed.

Leveling has its purpose, but its purpose in MMORPGs is in my opinion, out dated. When used improperly, it is a time sink for the sake of sinking time. When use strategically it does as you said, gives a sense of progression and strength. I've been playing Shadowbringers for 18 days now. I was 80 on the 2nd day of that. I don't remember how Stormblood went from 60-70, but I can say that 4.1-4.5 likewise took about a day and a half. Needless to say.. leveling is a bit of a breeze and doesn't comprise of the majority of our time.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing an expansion that doesn't add levels. The next expansion doesn't need to add 10 levels. When I played Everquest, it wasn't uncommon for an expansion or two be released without raising level caps. Of course EQ has one unique feature of any other MMORPG I've played. it is the HARDEST MMO to keep up with. For example, if you were to play it right now. Buy a character boost, as well as subscribe as a premium member for AA autogrant. I can almost guarantee you will NOT complete all the content from that boosted level to the final current endgame content before the next expansion releases.

In fact it has players who are 1-2 expansions behind working their way to catch up. Imagine ARR had a max level of 50. HW comes out and doesn't have a level increase, and neither does SB. However to do ShB leveling content (51-60), you need some of the mid tier raiding gear from SB. And of course to start doing the group stuff in SB so you can start raiding, you need some of the end tier group stuff or mid tier raid stuff from HW. And so forth. That's how EQ tends to run it. Player base is usually split between 2-3 expansions.

Many of you take DF content far too seriously. Everyone in these threads act like DF is the end all be all of class knowledge and God forbid if someone makes a mistake or doesn't play how the others think they ought to play. Its PUG content. Its not that important. Its simply content you queue up for, and are done in a single sitting. its not serious. Its not even required for the MSQ outside of a few trials.

People don't need to master their class for any of it. Its literally DPS not stand in stuff, tank has tank stance on and beats up stuff, and healers keep bars from emptying. The extra nuances needed to complete some of this stuff is minimal. As I've said, either in this thread or another, if you have a bad player, likely the group will be able to pick up the slack, or they can simply boot the offender. Which you would have to do anyway even if you had some silly little veteran tutorial. Those bad players you all have issues with, will find a way to skip those too. Even paying third parties for it.

Oh sure that's a big no no, but here's the dirty little secret. That's why skips were offered. SE couldn't actually tell who was paying for leveling services, so they decided to do their own and put them out of business.

But even if there is a small % that will get better after "education" is a win (in my eyes).

I'll take care of them. Unlike many, I don't believe that SE needs to handle player to player issues for me. I can take personal responsibility. Newbies aren't bad players. They're ignorant, and that can be taught in a run. We did that 2 weeks ago when everyone was new in Holminster Reach.

I didn't have a vote dismiss of that dungeon or any other. So I don't see a problem. Did you get a vote dismiss of the dungeon cause everyone gave up?