Who said this and can it apply to healers?

[Alphras]

The thing is a good healer duo didn't loose dps even when the tanks deactivated tank stance anyway. Most stuff was taken of by ogcd healing.

[Misutoraru]

Heal is DPS with some healing skill already
the only reason i am back on AST is only i heard the dev want to make heal more heal focus
however, it doesnt really look like we are healing more, may be we will have to see when ShB raid introduce
I can certain tell I will be very unhappy if the move healer to more DPS orientated. I believe the the issue is not on the number

As a tank, often force to pull everything and stance dance, managing CD, keeping aggro...it is the most stressful role back in those day
for heal, it have become more about just keeping everyone alive while doing mechanics and keeping tank with their all or nothing pull, when thing went wrong healer easily get the blame. When I play DPS it is more relaxing, doing the right rotation, pop the buff and do mechanic. I believe the stress factor are more the issue of lack of heal compare to DPS.

[Connor]

Made a post defending my previous statement but realised it’s pointless. Might as well just jump on the green dps bandwagon. At least then I won’t feel like my opinions mean absolutely nothing

Give us back Energy Drain, give us Bane, delete Physick, etc.

I mean maybe the should just make healers green dps who only heal with oGCDs. It could maybe be fun I guess. I’ve been hoping that they’d try and create some sort of variety with roles, but I guess it was naive of me to think I’d change anyone’s opinions.

I don’t really care what they do to healers anymore. Every single conversation about them is the exact same. Someone says ‘should healers dps’, the answer is a resounding ‘absolutely and they should DPS even more’. Why are we still having this conversation in the first place if nobody wants to speak against the majority?

It’s already standard practice to play healers as with as much priority on DPS as Healing, so why do we need to reiterate this point?

[Urthdigger]

Made a post defending my previous statement but realised it’s pointless. Might as well just jump on the green dps bandwagon. At least then I won’t feel like my opinions mean absolutely nothing

Give us back Energy Drain, give us Bane, delete Physick, etc.

I mean maybe the should just make healers green dps who only heal with oGCDs. It could maybe be fun I guess. I’ve been hoping that they’d try and create some sort of variety with roles, but I guess it was naive of me to think I’d change anyone’s opinions.

I don’t really care what they do to healers anymore. Every single conversation about them is the exact same. Someone says ‘should healers dps’, the answer is a resounding ‘absolutely and they should DPS even more’. Why are we still having this conversation in the first place if nobody wants to speak against the majority?

It’s already standard practice to play healers as with as much priority on DPS as Healing, so why do we need to reiterate this point?

If you actually wanted to have a conversation, you could try actually trying to understand the other side. Tossing in "lol" in your argument makes it look like you aren't even taking this seriously, and then through the whole thing you refer to healers that deign to put so much as a single DPS skill on their hotbar as "Green DPS" like we don't even try to heal. Are warriors just blue DPS because they use Fell Cleave? Guess I better not ever help with resses on RDM otherwise I'm just a red healer!

All I did was list a few ways your idea doesn't hold up against the reality of how the game is designed, and your reaction is to throw a fit like a child.

[LegoTechnic]

Made a post defending my previous statement but realised it’s pointless. Might as well just jump on the green dps bandwagon. At least then I won’t feel like my opinions mean absolutely nothing

Give us back Energy Drain, give us Bane, delete Physick, etc.

I mean maybe the should just make healers green dps who only heal with oGCDs. It could maybe be fun I guess. I’ve been hoping that they’d try and create some sort of variety with roles, but I guess it was naive of me to think I’d change anyone’s opinions.

I don’t really care what they do to healers anymore. Every single conversation about them is the exact same. Someone says ‘should healers dps’, the answer is a resounding ‘absolutely and they should DPS even more’. Why are we still having this conversation in the first place if nobody wants to speak against the majority?

It’s already standard practice to play healers as with as much priority on DPS as Healing, so why do we need to reiterate this point?

You seem a little cross, but a healer's priority is always to heal, and no one will ever tell you otherwise. DPS is something you use to keep yourself active, because a mark of a good player is one who remains active. If you have something else to actively do to benefit, then that's perfectly fine, but it's almost impossible to envision what that could reliably be during windows where healing would just end up as overheal. Especially now that Cleric Stance is gone there is very little incentive to not be casting a DPS spell while watching the health meters.

While it's not a bad idea to have some weird active-buff rotation to cast instead, the simple fact is that healers must have a serviceable DPS kit and be used to using it, otherwise they won't be able to handle the lengthy solo content and MSQ. Thus it's encouraged to use it during downtime not only because it's there, but because you'll have had extensive experience in its incredibly simple and attention-less requirements. And while DPS is appreciated in progression, the complaints generally stem from encounters on farm where mechanics are being done correctly and you know what's coming next in the very scripted fight, because that's how FFXIV encounters are designed. Because fights are scripted, you end up with large windows where you either only need a single healer, or no heals at all, at which time contributing with DPS as much as possible is both keeping your contribution active as well as helping the fight reach its conclusion earlier. Outside of Ultimate healer DPS is not considered in encounter design, and therefore any that you can do helps cover for any that your DPS cannot.

And if there's one thing a healer should specialize in more than any other role, it's carrying the party on its shoulders.

[Connor]

If you actually wanted to have a conversation, you could try actually trying to understand the other side. Tossing in "lol" in your argument makes it look like you aren't even taking this seriously, and then through the whole thing you refer to healers that deign to put so much as a single DPS skill on their hotbar as "Green DPS" like we don't even try to heal. Are warriors just blue DPS because they use Fell Cleave? Guess I better not ever help with resses on RDM otherwise I'm just a red healer!

All I did was list a few ways your idea doesn't hold up against the reality of how the game is designed, and your reaction is to throw a fit like a child.

To begin with, you’re assuming my post is a direct reaction to anything to do with your reply, and not the millions of others in the countless healer threads, including this one.

I’ll admit I threw a tantrum after seeing so many different people who didn’t think my suggestions would work, but you seem just as upset at the use of the term ‘green dps’ ’. You’re equating my own opinions and beliefs with those of others who might have a similar idea. Just because I like the idea of healers doing something other than damage doesn’t mean I’m instantly going to berate anyone who thinks otherwise. The post was pretty much just me venting my general frustrations. I’m not saying that justifies my behaviour. But it’s the truth.

I’ll openly admit that going on the forums and seeing the majority of people with opinions that are the opposite of yours sucks, and I’ll openly admit that I can get emotional. I’m not going to sit here and claim that I genuinely don’t care, since when I wrote it I thought quite clear from how (intentionally) exaggerated the post was that I do. And I’ll openly admit that I let myself get worked up over something that really doesn’t matter either way (whether healers deal damage or not).

I’ll openly admit that I often get too worked up about the way healers are. But I convinced myself there was a difference between acting falsely antagonistic towards a fictional entity like ‘green dps’ and actually making a personal attack against someone, which I have not attempted to do. I don’t know if the term is used as some kind of slur elsewhere, but I pretty much only used that term to avoid making people think I was targeting them, which I’m not. I thought it was be the red flag that makes readers say ‘ok this obviously isnt seriously’ I made my post, read the thread fully and the other threads, then realised that they were all saying mostly the same thing and made a stupid post that I shouldn’t have because basically it wasn’t what I wanted to see.

I’ll completely accept being called out for making a pointless post that serves no purpose other than me venting my frustrations. Call me immature, pathetic, waste of oxygen etc, and I’ll accept it. But don’t act like I’m trying to portray healers who do deal damage as something ‘bad’, or that I’m making personal attacks against people who disagree with me, because I never had any intention of doing either. If you’re genuinely offended then all I can do is apologise, because really I was barely thinking at all.

I’ll admit to my flaws when they’re made apparent, but I’m not going to let people think I’m some sort of incensed healer who just spams Physick and attacks everyone that thinks otherwise, not without at least stating my case.

And I mean, under the crap I posted there is a glint of truth. I need to accept the way healers and what people see them as, not just what I think they should be. Imagining doesn’t get much done if I’m neglecting what’s in front of me

[Urthdigger]

It was less that I was offended, and more that the term "Green DPS" has been thrown around by people who feel that the crowd asking for more interesting DPS options are just "DPS players who want a faster queue" rather than people who actually want to heal. The term paints you as out of touch with the reality of the situation, where healers are asking for the thing we do most of the time to be more interesting.

There's nothing wrong with imagining ways for things to improve, but they need to be tempered with the reality of the situation. At the moment, SE's plan for healer (and a lot of the pure healer crowd agrees here) is to simply reduce our attack options and give us more heal options. The problem is it changes nothing about how we play, but merely makes the DPS side more boring.

Ask around and you'll find many people's problem is not that they wish to deal a ton of damage, it's that they wish to be useful to the party even when absolutely no damage is coming out (Or minimal enough damage that shields, regen, and/or fairy have it covered.) The times where DPS-focused healers get heated is when people try to advocate to new players that there's no reason to improve further if everyone is alive and that idling is ok, or when people try to insinuate that they don't care at all for the healing side.

If there was a way to contribute to the party in a meaningful way instead of DPSing, many healers would gladly take it. However, there are a few rules in place for any such suggestion given the reality of the situation: The first is that it has to increase offense rather than defense: If no healing is needed, more defense is only going to create MORE downtime. Secondly, it has to be spammable. The issue with the idea you posted earlier is that it would at most be usable every 10 seconds (To keep a 30 second buff up on 3 other players). Lastly, it has to be interesting in its own right. We could, for example, have a GCD buff that adds a bunch of damage to a DPS's next attack, but if that's all we have as far as our support goes, it just means we've traded spamming our two DPS buttons on an enemy for spamming our one support button on the DPS. As far as what we're doing, nothing has meaningfully changed. It's easier said than done, but there's nothing wrong with proposing ideas. Just have the maturity to take criticism when people poke holes in it.

[Toystore]

It was less that I was offended, and more that the term "Green DPS" has been thrown around by people who feel that the crowd asking for more interesting DPS options are just "DPS players who want a faster queue" rather than people who actually want to heal. The term paints you as out of touch with the reality of the situation, where healers are asking for the thing we do most of the time to be more interesting.

On the flip side I think you guys are out of touch with the reality of the situation. The solution of 'more dps' is at natural odds with healing. Think of it like a lever with a fulcrum. The more dps, the less healing. That's why people call that solution the 'green dps' solution. It's incredibly frustrating because you already have a role. This is all we have as healers so when you push this solution it aggravates and annoys us to no end.

There are plenty of solutions that don't involve dps. 'Green dps' refers to the crowd that absolutely won't accept anything in their downtime other than dpsing filler. Rotations, more skills, stuff that puts more actions on the opposite end of the fulcrum when there's already a role that is specifically designed for players that want to do that.

I personally think the biggest logical mistake people are making is this ADHD obsession with ABC. ABC would have gotten you laughed out of older MMOs. Classic WoW had the mp/5 rule for every 5 seconds you weren't casting you would regenerate a certain amount of mp in combat.

ABC is such a false premise. People doesn't understand that inertia is something. Vanilla WoW utilized the value of the inertia where you stand still and monitor the fight by providing bonus MP regen if you could be smart enough with your triage to go 5 seconds without casting. I'm not saying the solution is a 5 second window, but ABC is just inane folly that really annoys me when people bring it up like it's somehow just natural truth.

Something as simple as what FFXI did where every tick of rest restores more hp/mp than the tick before it and the ticks increase as you don't cast would go a long way in that. There's PLENTY of ways to improve healers. But DPS is just a non starter for a lot of people, myself included. I do it and tolerate it because it's not the end of the world, but I do want to see it gone from the play paradigm because it's annoying and not fun in the slightest. Think of it like patting your head and rubbing your stomach. They require two separate axes of attention for offense and triage/reaction to damage management. Attention to one briefly interferes with the other and it plays extremely schizophrenic.

[Jerichai]

Snip

Dude, if you want to stand around and do nothing in between heals while you scratch your butt, feel free. Outside of the occasional tightly wound random in DF, most people won't care.

But please stop cheering for the demolition of any skill ceiling for healers to strive for, especially when it's existence has never truly been forced upon you.

[Toystore]

Dude, if you want to stand around and do nothing in between heals while you scratch your butt, feel free. Outside of the occasional tightly wound random in DF, most people won't care.

But please stop cheering for the demolition of any skill ceiling for healers to strive for, especially when it's existence has never truly been forced upon you.

You didn't read anything I posted. You're the exact person that 'green dps' refers to.

I offered plenty of solutions for the skill ceiling increase. In addition you could have potency increase for every tick without a cast on top of MP regeneration, to a maximum of some amount of potency. Inertia is elegant, and I get the distinct feeling people working from the ABC first principle will never understand this and have no business in this role when you can get all of your jollies from the little red role icon. Green dps players are just noise. They're myopic in that the ONLY answer they will accept is dps. You're part of the problem.