[SPOILERS] The Convocation of Fourteen

[Wolffriend]

I guess, but he also knows he's not actually Hythlodaeus.

But he is self-aware enough to know that he's a shade of Hythlodaeus.

[dragoelete]

even in that case if you are hythlodaeus he would not call you his new old friend. he would use a different term like new me or something else along those lines.

[Wolffriend]

In either case, it gives a whole new take on Thordan's "who...what are you?" at the end of the battle with him. Yoshi said that the dark lighting on the WoL at the end was a mistake in lighting the cutscene, but it matches what we see at the end of the final 5.0 battle, so either it was a hint that they waved away at the time because they weren't ready to reveal it, or they retconed it into the game based on the new revelations.

[DSCH]

But he also refers to us as his "new old friend" which would be a strange way to refer to himself. And he does explicitly say that you are the kind of fate he would have expected for one such as she(he). Again, a strange way to refer to yourself, even your former self.

It isn't so strange to call yourself a friend if you're being coy, though admittedly I can't say this was the case certainly. This shade could even refer to Hythlodaeus as she/he, her/his, that amaurotine basically, because it knows it isn't actually Hythlodaeus.

Edit: sorry, didn't mean to repeat but I thought my other reply didn't go through.

[JeanneOrnitier]

In either case, it gives a whole new take on Thordan's "who...what are you?" at the end of the battle with him. Yoshi said that the dark lighting on the WoL at the end was a mistake in lighting the cutscene, but it matches what we see at the end of the final 5.0 battle, so either it was a hint that they waved away at the time because they weren't ready to reveal it, or they retconed it into the game based on the new revelations.

I wouldn't say retcon so much as happy coincidence. I believe Yoshi P that the dark lighting of that scene wasn't intentional, but it does work great with what Shadowbringers gave us.

[Alleo]

It isn't so strange to call yourself a friend if you're being coy, though admittedly I can't say this was the case certainly. This shade could even refer to Hythlodaeus as she/he, her/his, that amaurotine basically, because it knows it isn't actually Hythlodaeus.

Edit: sorry, didn't mean to repeat but I thought my other reply didn't go through.

I think changing it to he or she depending on the WoLs gender is a bit of a hint that this talk is about the WoL. We have no other case where the people have two different genders so why should he call Hytolodaeus different?

I think people speculate (me included) that the WoL was once the 14th (or is the reincarnaton of her) because of this scene, because the shade then says that our soul is quite recognizable and that it would fit her actions. This hints that we once were someone special even with the Ancient ones. And the seemingly most special people are the ones of the council. Also Emet later recognized us and was shocked and did not want to believe it. So we are someone he knew. Of course we simply could have been one of the "normal" people that he knew, but together with our soul having a special color I do think that hints at the 14th member being our whole soul.

The part with Hydealyn is of course even more speculation. But at the least the 14th seems to have been against Zodiark thus would have not died for him either. If they survived the apocalypse then maybe the 14th was for protecting the new life thus seeing how powerful Zodiark became they saw no other way but to summon Hydealyn but with other intentions behind her. This could also be a good hint on why we are her WoL. But again that part is even more just speculation. It could also be that the 14th did no like her summoning either or just lived in a cave.

(Just a bit of fun: But maybe the 14th went away because he/she grew bored of the robes but was forbidden to show his/her fashion sense.)

[Rannie]

Hythlodaeus is also able to see Ardbert in an indistinct shape and the color. Which he/she then says that the WoL is the ONLY one that can see and talk to Ardbert. Now my speculation on this is due to Hytholodaeus being said shade and not the real one, they weren't able to see Ardbert fully. It can be still considered a hint as to Hythlodaeus being the WoL's original fully formed soul.

Think about it, we have Y'shtola traveling with us and she can ONLY see Aether, she also sorta knows what Ardbert's aether should look like albeit maybe a bit differently. Second, there is Ryne who can straight up make out the WoL's soul especially when it has cracks in it because of the over abundance of light aether that he has been absorbing. Ryne alsotook over Minfillia's powers as well as basically absorbed Minfillia herself, yet she didnt have a clue as to what the Wol was talking about at the end depending on your choice of answer. (Though both answers give a similar responce... yeah yeah I'm a sucker for cutscenes sue me =P).

Then there are a whole lot of questions on how Hythlodaeus gained his sentience as a shade. Like why did it matter to Emet if Hythlo realized the truth if he was dead. He did want the WoL to realize the truth of the situation. He even wanted to become allies with the WoL.

It also doesnt mean that Hythlodaeus wasn't the 14th member that left the convocation either. I mean he did practically say there was 14 but when zodiark was summoned it was 13... unlike it being rumored by the other npcs.


EDIT 2: also another thing to think of is even the Fuath (which are supposed to be the spirits of the drowned) gave no hint of seeing Ardbert either. Feo Ul and the other pixies didnt see him also.

[Berethos]

Then there are a whole lot of questions on how Hythlodaeus gained his sentience as a shade..

I think the "stray thought" bit is supposed to read more as "Hythlodaeus would realize the truth if they were still truly here" which may have manifested in Emet-Selch's mind, when going through the process of recreating Amaurot and those within, as a more present tense sort of wishful thinking.

Like for a moment, as he recreates Hythlodaeus, he lets himself get carried away and fondly thinks of them as actually being there, and thinks something akin to "Hythlodaeus will see through this whole facade I've created."

Of course...that is was unintentional and how it came to happen may also likely be speculation on Hytholaeus' part.

[Alleo]

Hythlodaeus is also able to see Ardbert in an indistinct shape and the color. Which he/she then says that the WoL is the ONLY one that can see and talk to Ardbert. Now my speculation on this is due to Hytholodaeus being said shade and not the real one, they weren't able to see Ardbert fully. It can be still considered a hint as to Hythlodaeus being the WoL's original fully formed soul.

Or maybe our color is that great that he was able to see at least a bit of it. Emet is also able to see colors (but strangely never mentioned ours) and it could just be that being a shade gave him the ability to see more. Or maybe he was already that good while he was alive.

We learned that the Ancient ones only needed a slight loss of attention and their concept changes. Hythlo did point out that it could have simply been Emet wondering in his mind if he might have seen through this illusion and without wanting to he gave him the ability to exactly do that.

About the talk between him and us, I watched it again in german:

- He does say that he and Emet knew each other quite well
- He also says that there were 14th people in the convocation but one left
- He says to our character that we have a very special color in our aura which can be quite recognized. Also he then asked if there is somebody else with us and then says something along side of: Well that action fits her.
- In the german version he does not call us at any time our old new friends. In his last line he calls us "Mein Kind" which means "my child", which sounded more like an elder talking to someone younger. Its interesting how different the dialogue can be in some ways.

[Wolffriend]

It would be interesting to see a translation of the original Japanese dialog there; that would maybe make it clearer, since things do change when they localize the game (see Hauche for details).