What is the Caster Role for 5.0 Going Forward and Where is balance?

[Kurando]

Which again goes back to just getting rid of raise on casters entirely; it's not a DPS's job to have to worry about that.
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To be fair we could say this about any job in the game. PLD shouldn't be using Clemency as it's the healer's job to worry about that, or RDM/DNC/BRD shouldn't be providing heal/esuna support as again it's the healers job. A number of role actions cause several jobs to have access to the same thing, again causing toe stepping on who should or shouldn't be doing things. Granted these are not the same as Raise, but we can't be isolating certain hybrid jobs just because some other jobs can't do the same thing, they all have specific strengths to make up for shortcomings. FFXI was pretty heavy in jobs doing multiple things, should be nothing new for XIV.

[SaberMaxwell]

To be fair we could say this about any job in the game. PLD shouldn't be using Clemency as it's the healer's job to worry about that, or RDM/DNC/BRD shouldn't be providing heal/esuna support as again it's the healers job. A number of role actions cause several jobs to have access to the same thing, again causing toe stepping on who should or shouldn't be doing things. Granted these are not the same as Raise, but we can't be isolating certain hybrid jobs just because some other jobs can't do the same thing, they all have specific strengths to make up for shortcomings. FFXI was pretty heavy in jobs doing multiple things, should be nothing new for XIV.

Beyond that XIV and XI are very different games, the thrust of this comes down to "These are not the same as Raise." Raise is a strong enough utility that we're even having this conversation; it goes beyond the PLD or RDM being able to sacrifice an entire GCD of damage for healing. Raise is a very specific ability; it's a single-target heal that can target incapacitated players. With casters as they are now, Taranok has a point: Black Mage is at a disadvantage being the only caster that has no access to it. With 66% of the role having it, the role is starting to get defined by it. The caster DPS role is being defined by raising, which is ostensibly a healer utility. It shouldn't be, which is my point.

Casters should be walking nuke factories, not back-up healers. Sure, part of the flavor of RDM is they're part White Mage; if that's the excuse that says they have to have raise, then whatever. Restrict it to a 60s oGCD then remove it from Summoner entirely would be an okay compromise; RDM keeps this weird niche of "It can raise real good!", do pitiful damage and never get taken into raid anyway, and the caster role can stop being defined by raising.