[Spoilers] I’m irrevocably Unimpressed

[Dualblade]

I think this is the sticking point, and really I don’t think the cycle of sacrifice would have ended there, with Zodiark there would have been more and more for whatever need comes about, Hydaelyn and those that summoned her knew this was the only way to break the cycle and protect future life.

I also think this is a big point of contrast between the two entities, Hydaelyn throughout the MSQ has been getting weaker and weaker and not once has she demanded sacrifice to power herself back up while Zodiark constantly demands sacrifice, massive ones at that.

If I might interject this isn't fully right about Hydaelyn: She had Midgarsomr take back/seal our Blessing because she needed to be able to regain some of her power naturally which while not a sacrifice did almost end up being our end since Nabriales went on the offensive as soon as he found out.

And at the end of ARR she had Minfillia go into the flow and sacrifice herself to become the Word of the Mother, both giving her some power and making it a little easier to talk to us. And given we weren't privy to what exactly She told Minfillia we don't know what Minfillia's knee jerk "No!" to what she was told was about. Maybe it was the only way to save Y'shtola and Thancred and she didn't want them to die, maybe it was the knee jerk to giving your own life. Regardless it ended up happening.

That is still only one life compared to how many the Ascians have/want to offer up to Zodiark though of current life.

[Fhaerron]

Considering how emotional he gets when you talk, it does seem like he's tried to accept these new people.

That's pretty much like me when I try to do normal content with DF and our GCBTW.

Now to get back on to the topic, yes he's evil. But we are also evil.

Example:
World war nazi's we're evil to us but we were also evil to them
The republic are evil for the separatists but the separatists are evil to the republic.
The list goes on.

[Lersayil]

I wouldn’t be so sure about that, Emet made it quite clear he was tempered by Zodiark, so I would argue the continued cycle of sacrifices after his initial summoning were indeed the will of Zodiark.

The third sacrifice is up to debate, I agree. They left it open for now. Hydaelyns and Zodiarks tempering is... an unkown for the moment. He used the words, but didn't exactly act like a tempered. His end goal also wasnt the resummoning of Zodiark per se, but to via this resurrection, revive his dead people. Only a stepping stone.

Much like we are most likely tempered by Hydaelyn and not act like crazed zealots (some might argue with that I guess), its probable that these temperings are a lot more subtle than the modern ones.

Anyways, its still too early to make these conclusions. Thus, speculation.

[Vercinotrix]

The third sacrifice is up to debate, I agree. They left it open for now. Hydaelyns and Zodiarks tempering is... an unkown for the moment. He used the words, but didn't exactly act like a tempered. His end goal also wasnt the resummoning of Zodiark per se, but to via this resurrection, revive his dead people. Only a stepping stone.

Much like we are most likely tempered by Hydaelyn and not act like crazed zealots (some might argue with that I guess), its probable that these temperings are a lot more subtle than the modern ones.

Anyways, its still too early to make these conclusions. Thus, speculation.

I actually wonder what the tempering from them is.

I'd bet it has something to do with the absurd resolve/willpower the WoL and Ascians to see their path to its end. Ascians seems to be quite calm and gentle natured, at least if Amaurot is to be believed. Killing billions and trillions even if you don't believe them to be "real" or "truly alive" seems a bit far without some sort of push forward.

Same with the WoL with our selflessness and near suicidal actions to bring peace and prosperity. While I don't have much sympathy for the Zodiark/Modern Ascians, it almost seems like a result of tempering or just something inherent to Ascians to go to absurd lengths for their beliefs.

[Bright-Flower]

You know what villain won?

Ilberd. He manipulated the Eorzean Alliance into finally helping Ala Mhigo and set in motion the events that lead to his nation's liberation while dying on his own terms. I mean Shinryu didn't work out in the end but I hardly think he'd complain about the outcome.

[Vercinotrix]

You know what villain won?

Ilberd. He manipulated the Eorzean Alliance into finally helping Ala Mhigo and set in motion the events that lead to his nation's liberation while dying on his own terms. I mean Shinryu didn't work out in the end but I hardly think he'd complain about the outcome.

Pretty much. I was thinking about that earlier, like sure he died and all but his goal was to get Ala Mhigo out of Garlean rule and become independent. Well even though we're still fighting over it, it looks like in the end Ala Mhigo will fly its own flag once more.

[SerLuke]

I actually wonder what the tempering from them is.

I'd bet it has something to do with the absurd resolve/willpower the WoL and Ascians to see their path to its end. Ascians seems to be quite calm and gentle natured, at least if Amaurot is to be believed. Killing billions and trillions even if you don't believe them to be "real" or "truly alive" seems a bit far without some sort of push forward.

Same with the WoL with our selflessness and near suicidal actions to bring peace and prosperity. While I don't have much sympathy for the Zodiark/Modern Ascians, it almost seems like a result of tempering or just something inherent to Ascians to go to absurd lengths for their beliefs.

A bit off topic but is it fair to call the people of the original world Ascians? It seems like that term only came into play after the original world and it’s people’s were split and a group composed of the 3 non fractured people arose to rejoin Zodiark, from what it seems those were the ascians, I personally call the original people ancients for lack of a better term, I might be wrong though!

[Lersayil]

I actually wonder what the tempering from them is.

I'd bet it has something to do with the absurd resolve/willpower the WoL and Ascians to see their path to its end. Ascians seems to be quite calm and gentle natured, at least if Amaurot is to be believed. Killing billions and trillions even if you don't believe them to be "real" or "truly alive" seems a bit far without some sort of push forward.

Same with the WoL with our selflessness and near suicidal actions to bring peace and prosperity. While I don't have much sympathy for the Zodiark/Modern Ascians, it almost seems like a result of tempering or just something inherent to Ascians to go to absurd lengths for their beliefs.

If I would have to guess, I'd say their tempering is more like a compulsion to uphold the respective gods ideals. Hydaelyn keeps throwing out those words like "hear, feel, think, see, etc". So I am guessing that Hydaelyn would be the free individualist? Amarithians were very... collectivistic? That would make Zodiark similar I guess. Controlling, homogenistic?

Or its possible that Zodiark is just a socialist hivemind... joking, but we don't have much to go on, so who knows.

EDIT: but then there is the matter of dark and light elements which dont make much sense in this context, as light is order and stasis, dark is chaos and motion. They dont really fit my theory so I'm probably just blowing hot air.

[SerLuke]

Also this brings up another question, assuming we are Hyd.. er the name of the ancient that took the lead in summoning Hydaelyn, why do we currently exist? Shouldn’t we have ceased to exist as a person as a sacrifice for her summoning if it was the same as the sacrifices for Zodiark? perhaps there is still more to the puzzle we are unaware of.

[Vercinotrix]

A bit off topic but is it fair to call the people of the original world Ascians? It seems like that term only came into play after the original world and it’s people’s were split and a group composed of the 3 non fractured people arose to rejoin Zodiark, from what it seems those were the ascians, I personally call the original people ancients for lack of a better term, I might be wrong though!

I'd say it would be. From the way Emet spoke it seemed like the Ancients all had similar powers, albeit probably varied amongst the populace in actual ability. Not everyone with the Echo is as strong or accomplished as the WoL, so it's safe to assume the same for the Ancients/Ascians. Unless I'm remembering wrong, isn't only the 1st's version of Sahagin that refers to them as Ancients? Could just be a simple word used by them. Amaurotine would more or less be more apt than Ancient if Ascian isn't applicable.

If I would have to guess, I'd say their tempering is more like a compulsion to uphold the respective gods ideals. Hydaelyn keeps throwing out those words like "hear, feel, think, see, etc". So I am guessing that Hydaelyn would be the free individualist? Amarithians were very... collectivistic? That would make Zodiark similar I guess. Controlling, homogenistic?

Or its possible that Zodiark is just a socialist hivemind... joking, but we don't have much to go on, so who knows.

I hope we get to meet Zodiark at some point and learn what his beliefs are and what both of their temperings actually do. It drives me nuts not knowing if I think about it for too long.